Hello, I don't know if you can advise me but - recently moved into a flat in a purpose built block and all the internal doors in the flat are very heavy, (presumably fire doors) which will not stay open or ajar and close too heavily behind you, causing potential injury to hand or legs which might be in the way.
Can these doors be modified in some way to become 'normal'doors ?They appear to have a 3rd chain like hinge in the middle.
Thanks

It appears to be a single chain Perko type Concealed Door Closer which I believe is not able to be adjusted therefore unless you are able to replace it and it will continue to close heavily behind you. Approved Document B, Volume 2, says that all fire doors should be fitted with self closers except doors to cupboards and within flats however the front door (fire door) should be fitted with an approved self closer. Speak to your landlord and he/she may allow you to remove them and make good the holes left but you must ensure the front door (fire door) is fitted with an approved self closer.

I have been receiving noise complaints because of the Perco Fire doors. Now disconnected. The doors in the rest of the block are not my concern & I've told the agents to get their maintenance people to adjust them.

You might need to consider adjustable concealed door closers. These are unfortunately quite a bit more expensive than the entry models without adjustment.

Harry

You need to check if the Perco door closers are being used as fire door self closers, because as far as I am aware there is only one that meets the requirements of a fire door closer, Powermatic, which meets the requirements of  BS EN 1154:1997 and is adjustable. Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/fire-door-fitting-and-ironmongery/

Hi Guys

I know this is an old post, but biting on to what Tom said,  `It appears to be a single chain Perko type Concealed Door Closer which I believe is not able to be adjusted` there are thousands if not millions of those old style brass coloured single chain types still out there (lots with broken chains) . IF still in situ, and working ok, do they need to be changed as they obviously wouldnt have conformed to standards we have now, ? 

cheers

Hi Geoff,

This type of closing device was commonly fitted to FD20 internal fire doors inside flats and houses. Many hardware suppliers call them 'slammers' as they are not adjustable for closing strength and speed but are cheaper to buy than adjustable self-closers. They are not suitable for flat entrance doors and fire doors in common areas as they are not compliant with regulations that require such devices to be a minimum of power-size 3 to BS EN 1154.

If you have them fitted to doors inside your flat or house there is no legal requirement to upgrade, indeed a change in building regulations no longer requires fire doors protecting staircases in dwelling houses and fire doors protecting inner lobbies in flats to be self-closing. There is guidance here https://www.local.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/fire-safety-purpose-built-04b.pdf

However, people do sometimes regard these self-closers to be a nuisance and often remove the complete device or sometimes just the chain itself. Any alteration to a fire door may affect its performance so if a concealed closer is removed then the void left inside the door / doorframe must be competently repaired.

Cheers Neil

appreciated

Geoff

Hi

I want to specify a concealed door closer for some front doors to flats. The doors are solid timber and 1 Hr fire rated, and I am concerned a concealed closer might invalidate the integrity of the fire rating. Does anyone know of a suitable closer?

There are jamb concealed self-closer devices that may be suitable such as the Powermatic R100. However, you must check that the door leaf is suitable for that type of device and this will depend on the door core construction type. 

Check the certification data sheet, technical manual, evidence of performance etc. for the door leaf.

Can anyone give me any advice?  It looks like I will have to move as for over 3 years I have been suffering noise from one of the nightmare slammer Perko door closers which the council installed in my neighbour's property.  The council will not remove the closer even though I understand it is not a requirement under current fire regulations in a single dwelling property.  I keep being woken up during the night at all hours leading to loss of sleep and it is affecting my overall heath and work performance. 

This is a noise problem and outside the remit of this forum, you could try the environmental health of your local council.

We have these throughout our townhouse and they are the bane of my life. They don't even give you enough time to walk through whilst holding 2 cups of tea. It's like a round of the Krypton factor.

Push door handle with elbow, whilst trying not to spill tea. Kick door as wide as possible. Buffet door on backside as it closes, again trying not to spill tea. Walk thru, catching door with ankle to try and slow down the closure so it doesn't bang.

I really wish you could have them so they stay open and close slowly like the fire doors with the big brass hinges. I'm glad i don't have kids. I reckon a few fingers could get broken if not worse.

If they are on an internal door you can cut the chains - it used to be a requirement to fit these a long time ago, but this was dropped some years ago.

Hi I have just saw this.

So basically moved in to a block with fire doors fd30. Also chains but silver.

I watched a couple you tube videos that show if you remove the plate turn it anti clockwise once can be less fast ?and they had silver chains ?My building was built 2008 .

Also have noticed most my doors don't fully close or bang which i like !.

But one door is really creaking and bangs slam shut ...

The people i did a mutual exchange with are filthy every surface full of cat and dog hair ..

I read gunk and debris in the hinges can make rhe door worse ..

I cleaned one out and used a wire brush and wd40 all I had ..

Did check all the screws are tight don't think the hinges have dropped ..

Saw you can install soft strike plate closer ?.

Does that make risk with a fire ...

I already kicked off at my social housing how dirty the flat is and the fire doors i don't think are safe and afraid of fire ....

Had a fire safety assessment by the fire men who reassured me but said I am not risk of fire right now but they do need replacing !!!..

They put wet washing on top of the doors !! Warped and ripped the wood effect dc fix wrap !!.

She has also broken the doors they have cracks in ..

Also the doors was installed with carpet i have concrete floor right now but having vinyl fitted ..

So one afraid of fire and smoke as massive gap and also wind and noise travels through every gap very loud especially since I am awaiting flooring and furniture etc ...

So questions I am asking .

1.can they be turned anti clock wise

2. It says can remember a different lubricant the thing wd40 but one guy recommended the make .

3. Something about oil which type

4. Drill or sit on draft excludes and noise i want to keep things fire code but they are plastic .

5. Soft close strike plate and maybe some noise dampers

   Not sure as the firr guys was talking to me about how important the middle strip of the door frame is but I wouldn't put the cushions there anyway.

6. Again afraid of fire, dont like noise or banging but I like that they close . I don't normally do diy myself but my new landlords have been assholes over the fire safety issues and me being afraid ..

7. Oh also some close snug when pulled in to lock some move back and there is a gap !.which is now freaking me out .. I never let my doors shut or close for three weeks ...... as my old property when you take door handles off you have a hole !!

   Oh no ! These ones its a locking mechanism!!!!!@

   My Mum and son got locked in my frontbroom luckily I was on the other side !!

   Last tenant messed around changing the door handles which didn't fit and there was a recent fire next door two years ago !! Only found out the third day after I moved in and also apparently teenagers kept getting setting alarm off so when it went off no one was leaving their flats ...

   I Have been to sometimes its safer to stay in your flat but I dont feel safe with the massive gap under every door and my balcony got condemned with rotten flooring and I am third floor one set of stairs down ...

Sorry for long post but been talking to people like family who don't have a clue lol 😂

Could you please post a picture of the closer?

Just saying WD40 is NOT a lubricant and should NEVER be used as such. It's actually a solvent. Oil/grease should not be used on door locks etc as over time they "dry out" holding any detritus build up making things worse. I suspect the thing you have been told is "graphite powder" it lubricates and being dry it doesn't hold anything