Jump to content

Neil ashdown

Power Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited


About Neil ashdown

  • Birthday December 23

Contact Methods

  • Website URL

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location

Recent Profile Visitors

3,508 profile views
  1. Hi again Peter, Just to add: The doors as you described them would not be classified as Nominal Fire Doors. A Nominal (or Notional) Fire Door is one where there exists no evidence of fire resistance performance but that in the opinion of the Competent Person would meet the required fire resistance performance. What you describe, is a door that has been upgraded to a fire door using products that have evidence of fire performance when fitted or applied to that particular type of door.
  2. Timber is an excellent material for fire doors because from empirical evidence we can easily predict its likely behaviour in a fire. When subject to fire the timber will burn and a char will form on the burnt surfaces, eventually the burn-rate will cause the door to shrink in size and bow/twist towards the fire...........and then it will fail to provide fire separation. The burn rate of the timber will depend on its density. Therefore the less dense the timber and the thinner the door, the earlier the door will fail and for that reason fire doors are generally at least 44mm in thickness and made from solid timber-based material. When upgrading timber doors to fire resistant doors , it is important to consider the fire performance test evidence for the products used to facilitate the upgrading works. All such products have limitations to their use/performance and the door that is to be upgraded must be comparable in its construction (density, thickness construction type) to the door that was successfully fire tested. Look carefully at the evidence of fire performance for the proposed upgrading products and check they have been successfully fire tested when used with a door of similar type, construction, density and thickness to yours.
  3. Scottish building regulation technical handbook (domestic) can be found here https://www2.gov.scot/Resource/0052/00521748.pdf 2.1 Compartmentation - on page 63 and 2.9.2 Escape within dwellings - on page 86, would appear most relevant. In accordance with Tom, my advice is to consult a local building regulations professional to assist in correct interpretation and that reference is made to the current requirements. An overview of Scottish requirements in terms of fire safety in buildings may be found here https://sp-bpr-en-prod-cdnep.azureedge.net/published/2017/11/3/Scottish-Building-Standards-and-Fire-Safety--A-Brief-Overview/SB 17-73.pdf
  4. Generally speaking, intumescent gaskets are not usually necessary for FD30 timber based fire doors but are necessary for FD60. However, different door leaves may have different requirements so where the door leaf can be identified to its installation instructions or data sheet then the information about requirements for hinges should be followed in its entirety. The intumescent gasket, where fitted, is required behind both hinge blades.
  5. Where possible, loosen the frame fixings to the wall and pack behind the door frame with timber folding wedges. Re-fix the door frame when the correct gaps have been achieved. Clearly, it will be necessary to make good the fire-stopping between the frame and wall. When carrying out these works refer to 'BS 8214:2016 Timber-based fire door assemblies Code of practice' and (where available) the product data sheet/installation instructions for the fire door leaf.
  6. The maximum gap may well be a concern because where the gap is excessive the fire performance of the door may be compromised. The fire risk assessment should identify the fire doors most critical to the fire strategy at the building and these doors should be prioritised where remedial works are deemed necessary.
  7. If they are fire doors you can paint them, but be careful about wrapping them as the fire performance test evidence for fire doors places restrictions on adding facing and edging materials to fire doors. Can you find out which manufacturer made the doors? If so you may be able to get hold of the product data sheet and therefore the information you need.
  8. "The bottom edge of the doors incorporates a rebated drop-down door seal as the door-edge to cill gap is about 10mm. However when the door is closed the seal when dropped still leaves a gap of about 2.5mm. I appreciate this is less than the 3mm limit for a door-edge to cill gap where no smoke seal would be required, but I would have thought that where a smoke seal is fitted it ought to bridge the gap completely, especially as with the drop-down type there's no risk of interfering with door self-closure". The seal would've been subject to a performance test fitted to a door, so it's best to contact the manufacturer with this question. I would suggest starting with Lorient at https://www.lorientuk.com/contact
  9. If the door leaf to door frame gaps are not as those stated in the fire door's product data sheet/installation instructions, then the the installation is non-compliant. If the smoke seal does not fill the gap (though it shouldn't be so tight as to hinder self-closing) then it will not effectively restrict spread of ambient temperature smoke. So the installation is non-compliant. The installer should work to the relevant product installation data sheets and to the relevant British and European Standards. The relevant standards / documents are: Product installation data sheet for the door leaf and the seals, BS 8214:2016 Timber-based fire doors Code of practice, BS 476 part 31.1, and BS EN 1634-3. More information at the website of the Intumescent Fire Seals Association: https://www.ifsa.org.uk/
  10. So you have four flats and each flat has an FD30s flat entrance door? Then you have a lobby with an FD30s door but you don't say if the lobby is to a stair case, to a lift or whether all the flats are ground floor but with a lobby before the main entrance door to the block? Your question seems to be about the door that opens to and from the outside to the block of flats? If I have that right, then this door would not usually need to be a fire resisting door (unless there's a particular reason why that door needs to provide fire protection) because the door opens to/from an outside area. Guidance at the website https://www.local.gov.uk/fire-safety-purpose-built-flats may be useful?
  11. Carry out a suitable and sufficient fire risk assessment to establish where fire doors (if any) are required. Guidance at: https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/safety/the-workplace/takeaways-cafes-and-restaurants/ and https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-risk-assessment-offices-and-shops for example. Depends on the risk of fire at the location, the assessment could include (but the list is not exhaustive): Is there possible risk at the storage room? Are flammables stored there / is there risk of ignition? What electrical equipment or installation is there at the location? If there was a fire at the location, how would people at the building be affected? Is there any sleeping accommodation? Are there detectors and/or other fire safety devices? Would a fire at that location affect ease of escape?
  12. Hi Brian, Hope you don't mind me giving an answer in the interim. I am sure Tom will also give his answer as soon as he can. Generally, timber-based fire resisting doors should have a gap of 2mm to 4mm between the edge of the door leaf and the inside of the door frame reveal. They should also sit within the door frame reveal and not stand proud. There are also specific requirements in terms of the gap at the threshold, generally 3mm maximum for doors that must provide restricted cold smoke spread and 10mm for those that don't. It is acceptable to use a suitable threshold seal where the 3mm cannot be achieved. These are the requirements for installation of timber based fire doors and where different gaps are permitted, the door leaf installation instructions will state the requirements. Persons carrying out installation and maintenance to timber based fire doors should refer to the door manufacturers data sheet/installation instructions and BS 8214:2016 Timber based fire door assemblies Code of practice. The fire risk assessment for the building should note how critical the fire doors are to the fire strategy and therefore to the safety of relevant persons in a fire. If the fire risk assessment deems it necessary for those particular fire doors to perform to their design requirements in terms of fire and smoke compartmentation then it will be necessary to maintain the fire doors to the manufacturer's installation requirements, this would include gaps. It is worth noting that many common types of smoke seals depend on correct gaps in order for them to perform to the relevant standard.
  13. Depends on the certification body or training provider. If you are looking at third party certification and/or training for installation and/or inspection of fire doors, undertake sufficient research before you part with your money. Satisfy yourself that you are getting the best and most comprehensive that is available.
  14. Composite construction fire doors for the flat entrance (timber doors a little less often) often use a cold smoke seal that performs more than one function. The person responsible for procurement of the fire doors and the installation works should satisfy themselves that the smoke sealing performance for the door-set is confirmed by suitable documentary evidence of performance to BS 476 part 31.1 / BS EN 1634-3.
  15. You should follow the installation requirements set out in the fire door leaf manufacturers instructions. The leaf of a timber based fire door assembly is always the main component of a fire door assembly, therefore installation of the other components of the assembly should be installed in accordance with the relevant installation instructions, data sheet or technical manual for that particular door leaf. However, there is some standardisation with regard to frame fixings and the door leaf manufacturer will often refer the installer to BS 8214: 2016 in the case of door frame installation for timber-based fire doors. Generally fixings should be 100mm from the top, 100mm from the bottom and at no more than 500mm centres. Fixings should penetrate a suitable wall substrate (ie. fire rated to the required rating) by at least 50mm.
  • Create New...