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  2. I must clarify that my response assumes the fire doors are fitted with intumescent strips as well as inch door stops, if not, then I do not recommend the breaking the continuity of the inch door stops for any distances.
  3. Tom Sutton

    Fire door glazing upgrade

    Fire resistant glass must only be used as part of a fire resistant glazed system – which includes the glass, the glazing seal, beads, fixings and frame. All essential components of such a system must be compatible under fire conditions, and the performance must be referenced to appropriate and relevant test evidence. I do not think fitting FR glass to the back of existing glazing is sufficient and as Neil has said make sure it is a FD30s fire door. Check out http://www.lorientuk.com/products/fire-resistant-glazing-systems/
  4. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    cutting the door stop to fit a maglock on FD30

    You should be aware that, in a fire situation, heat transfer from this large amount of metal to the timber door leaf could cause premature fire separation failure. The top edge and the upper part of the closing edge is more vulnerable to fire (than the lower parts of the door leaf) and therefore it would be sensible to risk assess the effects of a premature failure for the timber based doors that are fitted with magnetic locks. With regard to removal of stops, it is always better to add a timber fillet to the door frame reveal instead so as to support the hardware securely. I realise this may not be very practical, but fitting such a device to the door-frame closing jamb doesn't seem very practical anyway! You should also bear in mind that mag-locks tend to distort the timber door leaf where they pull the leaf towards to magnet. During installation, care should be taken to ensure the leaf remains in plane in its closed position.
  5. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Fire door glazing upgrade

    Aside from the important issue of checking that the doors are suitable as FD30s doors you can find information in the Glass & Glazing Federation 'Fire Resistant Glazing Best Practice Guide' at http://www.ggf.org.uk/groups/fire-resistant-glazing-group/fire_resistant_glazing_best_practice_guide Also check out latest guidance from the Ministry of Housing, Communities & Local Government at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/707440/Advice_for_building_owners_on_assurance_and_replacing_of_flat_entrance_fire_doors.pdf and from the National Fire Chiefs Council at https://www.nationalfirechiefs.org.uk/High--Rise-Safety-for-Residents
  6. Tom Sutton

    David E

    BS EN 13501 is an EC standard for the Fire classification of construction products and building elements. Classification using test data from reaction to fire tests, which in my opinion is not for door mats and BS 5287 Specification for assessment and labelling of textile floor coverings tested to BS 4790 is the relevant standards. In my opinion fire properties is not that important, what is more important is if it is a tripping hazard and cannot see any reasons why you cannot use a standard non slip door mat providing it is not a tripping hazard.
  7. In the 1970's fire doors were tested to BS 476 part 8 and required an inch (25mm) doors stop to pass the test. Later that decade intumescent strips (IS) were introduced to improve the fire resistance and it was claimed the inch stops prevented the heat getting to the IS making it less effective. By the time BS 476 part 22 was introduced the inch rebates had been removed and the fire doors passed the new test, which was more demanding, indicating that with IS you didn't require inch rebates. Consequently I would suggest providing the lock doesn't break the continuity of the IS the fire doors integrity will not be reduced.
  8. Tom Sutton

    Kitchen fire doors

    Not enough information it would depend on the layout of the flat, travel distance and the height of the building. It is very likely you are subject to the building regulations and should study Approved Document B (fire Safety) volume 2: Premises other than Dwelling Houses and check out B1 section 2.
  9. AnthonyB

    Fire protection on external wall

    A one room building with no relevant persons to protect most of the time, where the service penetration is to the outside and would safely vent in the event of fire? Unless there is an adjacent building or risk that would be affected by improper fire stopping in this case, which sounds extremely unlikely, then from a fire safety point of view you could fill it with chewing gum for all the difference it makes....
  10. AnthonyB

    bar across fire exit to stop burglars

    It's legal as long as it's managed such that all fastenings are removed when the premises are occupied. If this isn't happening it's an offence and management requires improvement or an alternative option considered
  11. David E

    David E

    Tom, Referring to your remarks on door mats. We have been supplied by our landlord with fire resistant ones (apparently complying with BS EN 13501), which have been placed inside the front and rear door entries. I notice however, that you state BS 5287 is the compliant for carpet. Why the difference? We approached the manufacturer, and they will not supply unless we sign up individually to a rental contract agreement, similar to the one taken out by our landlord. Why can we not use a standard non slip door mat, and treat it with a complying fire retardant spray?
  12. Hi, I own a flat in a purpose built block, with a total of 6 other flats. Recently we had a fire safety assessment which pointed out a problem with the Glazing in the front door on several properties. The building is about 28 years old, all of the flat doors are std hardwood entrance doors with 9 small glass panels in the upper half. Aparantly when they were built there was a secondary fire retardant glazing panel fitted inside, this is no longer there and therefore the recommendation is to retrofit for 30min safety. my question is what exactly do I need and where can I buy the materials Required. I’m fully capable to do the work but need to be certain that I have the correct materials and comply with all the regs.
  13. Guest

    Kitchen fire doors

    Hi A ground floor flat has been refurbished in a purpose built block of flats. Does the door the kitchen in the flat need to be a fire door?
  14. Having googled and searched this forum to no avail I'm hoping someone here can help... A site has FD30's fitted with 25mm door stops. I'm in the process of fitting maglocks to them and on one door I have to mount it vertically on the side (the door has a curved top), in order to stop it sticking out further than necessary I was wondering if I could cut out a 20cm section of the doorstop and fit it there? Google only seems to mention gaps in the intumescent strips and nothing about a continuous door stop. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks
  15. My employers, a branch of a large supermarket chain has a long bar over the fire doors that has to be removed every morning and put back at the end of the day. When the bar is in place the fire doors can not be opened. Obviously this is open to human error and I have often seen the bar still on the doors after 5pm. Is this safe or legal? Who can I contact about this. My manager has dismissed my concerns.
  16. Hiya, first post, probably loads more to come, as I'm new to passive fire protection, and it seems to be a growing concern, which is quite understandable, and even though I've been on the C17 Introduction To PFP course, I'm still brand new, and in some areas, unsure. The query I have is, there was a water pipe that exited an external wall (On the inside its block, outside sheet metal, insulation wise, I do not know if its rockwool or other), anyway I was asked to hide the expanding foam which was used to fill the gap around the pipe. Now, the building is a standalone one room building, none residential, a few bits of electrical equipment inside, and a large diesel generator with a 100ltr diesel tank next to it. The building is protected by a sprinkler system, it has a vent on one wall, which is always open. Now, I was asked to hide the expanding foam, no specs were given, just cover it with a board. So, I personally couldnt see nothing wrong with using 3/4 plywood as I had a sheet the perfect size, and bare in mind, this isnt about cost... So I cut the board around the pipe, fixed it to the block work, then sealed around it and the gap around the pipe with, as it happens, fire retardant sealant. Someone comes along, looks, and has a bit of a whinge that I've used ply, but like I said, no specs were given, and I personally couldnt see what was wrong considering many factors I mentioned above. What I want to know is, is it adequate? Should have I used proper fire rated materials like fire batt, I know its a daft question because obviously to be 100%, I should of, but then, I personally couldnt see the issue, its a small building, protected by a sprinkler system, smoke and cinders WILL escape through the vent if something did break out. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this, like I said, I'm new to this, I'd like to learn in, the C17 Intro to PFP only showed so much, and mostly that was internal residential stuff. Kind regards
  17. Thank you very much for your response. That's how I have understood the regs. But my personal view is an upward arrow in a time of panic could be misunderstood as has two meanings and could send someone in the wrong direction! Best stick to the regs, thanks again.
  18. Guest

    Ei144 wont stop beeping!

    Well, I had a beeper in the middle of the night (at about 3.30am) up stairs on the landing. I live in a terrace and noises at night can travel. After an hour of frantically prodding it, twisting it, trying and failing to open it I graduated to repeatedly checking the clearly perfectly in order fuse box and trying to open it again and doing some more failing. All this punctuated with occasional bouts of (wishfully) thinking it had stopped only for it to start again 10 minutes later. As a last resort - which clearly should have been my first - I went online for support, I mean solutions, and found this suggestion. It totally totally worked. Blessed silence since 4.30am - well that's what you'd expect wouldn't you? But no. Sure there hasn't been a peep from the smoke alarm. It would appear though, that what with all the beeping and the vacuuming I woke my neighbour. I got the impression, due to some unusually loud harumphing followed by a door slam, that the 5 to 7 seconds of vacuuming was somehow the last straw. Since then my large but usually nimble-footed neighbour has discovered that the stairs can be ascended and descended just as easily by clomping up and down them. The lack of sleep must have interfered with his memory or his bladder because he needs to do this rather regularly. Someone of of a suspicious mind or someone suffering from sleep-deprivation-induced paranoia I might consider him of being determined to make sure neither of us got back to sleep. Surely it was better to stop the beeping? Oh look whose here! "Hello 7.30am, I've been expecting you. Four thirty am was here earlier, but he's gone now." Thanks for reading
  19. The purpose of testing the alarm is to test some of the components and ensure the alarm s working, also to allow all relevant persons to hear what the alarm sounds like and ensure they can hear the alarm. It should be tested at the same time each week so relevant persons realise it is most likely a fire alarm test. Consequently the Responsible Person is not carrying out the recommended procedure.
  20. i have recently joined an organisation where the fire alarm is tested weekly when the office is shut. I have therefore not heard the alarm sounding. Is this compliant? Thanks
  21. Safelincs

    Ei141 still beeps after battery replacement

    Hi, I assume you used the new batteries that come with the alarms. If it was the optical version of the alarm try to vacuum out the chamber in case any dust from your dusting action got into the alarm. Once done, if you still get alarms you might have to claim on the warranty of the product and ask for replacements. Harry
  22. galuk1

    Cable

    knowledgeable reply, thanks.
  23. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Boiler room fire door - is a door closer required?

    Will the intumescent air transfer grille restrict the spread of cold smoke?
  24. Guest

    Ei141 still beeps after battery replacement

    We have these alarms, they seem to go off in summer in the middle of the night. They were due replacing so we replaced the units onto the easifit bases and last night they went off for about 30 seconds then stopped, not good at 4am! One is in the hall and one on the landing, I've dusted all around them so it's not dusty up there. Does anyone have any advice because I'm thinking of putting up the old fashioned battery powered ones and disconnecting these.
  25. Strict interpretation of the signage rules is the use of an up arrow above the door as up is for straight on as well as up. When through the door you have another change of direction requiring another sign for the stairs (usually diagonal down & left, or down & right depending on how the stairs run)
  26. AnthonyB

    Cable

    Sounders have always needed to be in fire resistant cabling for a lot, lot longer than 20 years. This is a serious non conformance that affects life safety and must be remedied. Detection zones to call points and smoke/heat detectors have only required to be fire resistant since 2002 (although most good installers would use FP or Pyro anyway). This is because original conventional fire alarms would go into 'fire' when their cables were short circuited so a fire burning through cabling would still set the alarm off, which would continue to sound as the sounder circuits would be fire resistant. As long as the current panel is set to operate in 'short circuit = fire' mode (most modern panels default to 'short circuit = fault' mode and would need the setting changing) this is less of an issue unless the panel cannot be set for short circuit = fire So: Sounders in FR cabling - essential; detection zones in FR cabling - desirable
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