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  3. AnthonyB

    fire doors closing at night

    I assume you mean doors normally held open by an approved automatic release device and not just hooked or wedged open. Tradition under old legislation was to require them to be shut at night in hotels and boarding houses, but as Tom says it's no longer explicit under the current regime, but still worth doing
  4. AnthonyB

    Guest House - Hotel

    There is no fixed definition, there is some basic pointers to help you decide in here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/11085/payingguests.pdf If you feel you are bigger than the property types detailed in the above you need to use this guidance: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/422192/9281_Sleeping_Accomodation_v2.pdf
  5. Tom Sutton

    fire doors closing at night

    In my opinion, any fire doors that are held open with approved devices should be released each evening because a door left in the open position, for prolonged periods, could set due to the weight of the door, however there is no legal requirement.
  6. Tom Sutton

    Differing advice from different assessors

    Only SP205 deals with the company and not individuals, all the rest register the individual as being competent, for example, if IFE register a person, that person has been tested to a standard that they consider he/she is competent. So if you employ a person who is registered then the organisation who registered him/her are saying he/she is competent.
  7. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Smoke seals

    Generally smoke seals may be interrupted at locks, latches, keeps and hinges. However, where extra large items of hardware have been fitted such as self-closers concealed at the top of the door/head of the door frame or large mortice locks, alternative type smoke seals should be used. Other types of smoke seals are available, such as compression seals fitted in the door frame rebate or blades in a carrier that can be fitted on top of the rebate stop to contact the face of the door, so there's no reason not to have sufficient smoke sealing. Also, don't forget the threshold. Clearly, double swing doors are more challenging in terms of smoke seals. For more info try the Intumescent Fire Seals Association at www.ifsa.org.uk
  8. Commonsensenotsocommon

    Differing advice from different assessors

    Thank you Tom appreciate your reply. I did use those guides, but the experience I had in the past was that I would speak to the company owner who is an assessor and then instead of him turning up to do the assessment, he's sent down another assessor who I assume would have been briefed by the main guy, but clearly not. I will not be making that mistake again that's for sure. I also should have checked references from other clients with similar properties, but I felt reassured by what we discussed hence not following up. Hey ho as they say..
  9. Guest

    fire doors closing at night

    Are there specific rules on when fire doors in communal areas should close in the evening?
  10. Steveo

    Guest House - Hotel

    Hello all, Could someone tell me if there is a stipulated number from when a guest house is deemed to be a hotel, I’m thinking in terms of the required fire alarm needed, when say a simple guest house with no more than 3 floors, it would be acceptable to have a grade D or even grade F but at what number of rooms would you need a more sophisticated system with call points etc.? Thanks for any advice.
  11. Tom Sutton

    Temporary cardboard seating

    Hope you have a deep pocket you will need it for the BS.
  12. Tom Sutton

    Ei141 still beeps after battery replacement

    What may have happened the steam condensed on the electronics of the smoke alarm causing short circuits, which is likely to cause problems until it is fully dried out. The noise that sounded like a robot losing power, is likely to be capacitors drain down, it also happens when you remove the battery and press the hush/test button.
  13. Guest

    Smoke seals

    Would like some advice on FD30s and FD60s doors. If they are fitted with smoke blades around the frame or leaf, is there a maximum interruption allowance, for example; where the smoke seal is obstructed by a hinge blade or a lock/latch. Do the seals have to be continuous around the leaf or frame, for the door to be considered adequate enough to do its job?
  14. Hi Michael, Because gap sizes can vary so much you may have to use more than one fire stopping method. First of all, I should say that this subject is dealt with in detail by 'BS 8214:2016 Timber based fire door assemblies Code of practice'. Generally, for gaps up to 15mm you should completely fill the gap to the full depth of the door frame with tightly packed mineral wool. Make allowance though for a 10mm deep capping of intumescent acryilic sealant on both sides. The sealant should cap the mineral wool for a 10mm depth between the frame and the wall and not just to cover the surface of the gap. Intumescents are gap fillers and need surfaces to expand against under pressure, if applied to just a flat open surface they will just foam and fall away so they need to be inside the gap. This should be done all around the door frame to wall gap on both sides. Where the gap is up to 20mm, follow the same method as above but use tightly fitted 15mm timber or MDF architraves to overlap both frame and wall by at least 15mm. For small gaps such as 3mm to 6mm where use of mineral wool is impractical you should fill the gap as deep as is practically possible with intumescent acrylic sealant. For especially large gaps line the opening with continuous solid timber and fill any remaining gaps as above. Blue 60 is a new-ish product specially for timber fire door frames but minimum and maximum gaps apply to its use and the dedicated packers supplied with the foam must be used. So use in accordance with the product data sheet. Hope this helps.
  15. Check out Guidance on Fire Door Installation may help.
  16. Most cheaper off the shelf FR foams are not tested for use in frames regardless of the claims on product literature, loads of places have had to rip this out and start again or if lucky been able to trim it down and suitable mastic or plaster over it. Search for Blue 60 a foam specifically intended to serve your purpose
  17. AnthonyB

    Differing advice from different assessors

    The first two were clearly out of their depth, the third was nearest to what the current benchmarks state - it would be correct in a post 2000 building regulation compliant stay put premises to not have a fire alarm system or domestic detectors and just have smoke detectors to operate the AOV's. Deaths have occurred in stay put flats where common area only detection with alarms (which would only activate if there was a fire in the common areas, an unusual occurrence and often associated with arson or charging mobility scooters) has brought people out of the 1 hour safety of their flat into a fire and smoke filled landing. It's therefore correct to suggest the erroneously installed smoke alarms be removed (or at least it be clear in the procedure given to tenants that hearing a common alarm may mean there is danger so take care if investigating and staying put may be safer) . As long as the fire service can access the AOV manual controls (which they can from your info) then your solution to a building specific issue should have been accepted and rubber stamped by the FRA. Too many under trained persons doing residential FRAs using the wrong guidance and ticksheets or point and click mobile report apps unfortunately.
  18. We are required to fill the gap between the inner and outer door frame , the inner door frame being part of the fire-rated door system , the outer being a timber frame around the opening in the concrete or brickwork which are installed by the builder. Shop drawings show maximum gap allowed as 10mm and intumescent foam literature says to apply between 10mm to 20mm . No problem with that . the problem is that sometimes we have gaps of 3 to 5mm and we cant get the intumescent foam into such a tight gap . Are we still required to fill these narrow gaps even though they are behind the architrave ? Some are saying if the gap is narrow and is filled by timber frame then this is ok and no need to fill.
  19. Yes you can fit a threshold seal depending how big the gap is. Check out https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fire-and-smoke-seals/?fga=true&msclkid=60a6f9fa633217f6ccbca2172942109c&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=SL Text%3A fire door seals&utm_term=fire door %2Bthreshold seal&utm_content=Threshold seal#AFASDBSM/330.
  20. Tom Sutton

    Differing advice from different assessors

    Have you used the A Guide to Choosing a Competent Fire Risk Assessor backed up by Fire Risk Assessment Competency Council - Competency criteria for Fire Risk Assessors then check their credentials with the appropriate organisation. Final check, to establish if they are using Fire safety in purpose-built blocks of flats to conduct their FRA.
  21. Tom Sutton

    Protected Fire Escape

    The stairs and I assume the landing are concrete construction, the enclosure is brick or block, so the escape route is separated from the storeroom by at least 60 mins FR so cannot see any problems. However moving the old fire door to its new location serves no purpose because the new and old storerooms are not fire resistant (FR) because of the non fire rated wall and removing the fire door. In my opinion because storerooms, in most situation, are a high fire risk and should be enclosed to a minimum 30 mins FR. The wall you claim is non FR could be if the studding and ceiling meets a 30 mins FR standard which it can be using plaster board.
  22. Stinky Britches

    Temporary cardboard seating

    Thank you Tom. I appreciate your help. You've just given me my homework for the weekend. Our due diligence starts here. Thanks for your advice.
  23. Bohosew Interiors

    BS Fire Safety Regulations for Curtain/Blind Makers

    Thank you very much Tom, I really appreciate your time and advice. Kind regards, Claire Morhall
  24. Tom Sutton

    Temporary cardboard seating

    When conducting a FRA the following will be considered, upholstered seating, carpets and other textile floor coverings and underlays should be resistant to ignition. Temporary seating with more than 50 persons should be fixed together in a minimum of four and fitted to the floor if there is more than 250. I think your cardboard boxes would be hard to meet those requirements and there are many more rules, check out BS 9999 or BS 5588 part six. Check out https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/14889/fsra-large-assembly.pdf.
  25. Tom Sutton

    BS Fire Safety Regulations for Curtain/Blind Makers

    If the house is used as there permanent abode most of the year and only occasionally for other purposes then I am not aware of any legislation that would require them to have flame retardant curtains, although it is a good fire safety consideration. If for instant you use a small bedroom as an office or a plumber fits a bathroom in your house it doesn't make you house a workplace, the principal use is still a domestic dwelling.
  26. I am assuming the door is not required for means of escape, if so, there is no reason that the opening cannot be sealed using at least 30 mins fire resistant construction.
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