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  1. Today
  2. Sprinklers only stop when the water runs out or some one turns them off. Sprinklers only activate at a preset temperature, and it has to be that temperature at the sprinkler before it operates (The red ones it is 68 degrees centigrade, the colour of the sprinkler bulb denotes at which temperature the sprinkler operates at) So for example if a pc monitor caught fire I doubt it would reach 68 degrees at a sprinkler since there is not much to actually burn, and no doubt it would start smoking first in which case some one would have turned it off. If the pc monitor was surrounded by combustible materials and these also ignited then yes the chances are the sprinkler would activate and yes there is a possibility the water would short out the electricity but that would cause the fuse in the plug to blow (cutting off the electricity) You also have to consider that unlike the movies, chances are some one would have noticed (in this case) the monitor and surrounding area is on fire and they would have raised the alarm and or be using a fire extinguisher for its intended use. Sprinklers are mainly to stop fire when the area is unoccupied, so there would be no danger to life.
  3. Guest


    Fire Detection and Alarm System requires new inspection certificate following repairs? Block of 7 flats. Fire system failed inspection with 8 faults in May 2017. The faults were not repaired. It was next inspected by the same electrician in January 2019 and failed again on the same 8 faults. The faults were not repaired. It was next inspected by the same electrician in June 2019 and failed again on the same 8 faults plus another 2 with 4 of the faults now identified as urgent. The faults were not repaired. I became aware of the situation 4 weeks ago. The block managing agent tells me that the electrician has now repaired the faults and has shown me his invoice but it simply states 'fire system repairs' rather than specifying what items were repaired. I also asked for a new inspection certificate to verify that it was now satisfactory and had no faults. The electrician has given me a duplicate of the failed certificate issued last June but this version now states 'satisfactory' and has no faults listed. My problem is that on the date of this 'new' certificate the fire system actually wasn't satisfactory because it had 10 faults. I would like to know if the electrician should have inspected the system after he had repaired the 10 faults on 21/10/19 and issued a new certificate on that date. I need this for peace of mind that my flat and the block it is in is safe and that the buildings insurance is now valid (I have been told it wasn't valid while the fire system was reported as faulty).
  4. Yesterday
  5. Thanks - I will put pics up tomorrow when I'm back at work
  6. Sounds like your contractor has bodged the lot and doesn't have a copy of the relevant standards. Firstly your EL should be fitted to the normal lighting circuit not it's own and door entry shouldn't be off lighting (often it's own supply with a back up battery). Also in addition to BS5266 for the lighting your contractor should have a copy of BS7273-4 for the access control if it's fitted on doors used for escape.....thats a whole other set of requirements missed..........
  7. It's all wrong. EL fittings are meant to be on the same circuits as the normal lights, otherwise they won't come on unless you get a complete power outage (local circuit failure is common). If your contractor knew what BS5266 (the standard any professional who installs and maintains EL should have and know) said they'd have done it correctly which questions their competence
  8. Guest


    Dear Forum, I am a charity trustee, searching for a consultant to advise us on an escape route from a rented community workshop/meeting place . A staircase, a door and a landing are the problematic issues. Can anyone point me in the right direction, please? We are in Somerset. Best wishes.
  9. Hello, I am hoping you can help me. I can see Tom that you have been very kindly lending your ear and advice on this forum for some years, which is rather lucky for all us lesser clued up people. I am following a thread that a few other people on here have posted about, so I am sorry if it has been covered before. I have been doing upholstery for some time and am tentatively now thinking about selling my items but keep putting it off due to my concern over fire regs. I regularly have furniture anywhere from early 1900's through to today. with all of these items I remove all coverings back to the frame and start from scratch. I think I am right in saying that if my top fabric is not fire retardant (less the 75% cotton etc) then I need to use a barrier cloth. Normally I would use calico, which I have checked with the supplier is fire retardant but then there is crib 5 calico, which I think is schedule 5? I am confused as to which I need to use. Also I am assuming that the fillings I buy, wadding, polyester are also fire retardant and that by selling these items it is the responsibility of the seller that they do conform? Lastly (sorry) do I then need to sew a fire label in? Thank you so much for your time, I am going round in circles trying to find this information out.
  10. We have had a contractor fit electronic keypad entry systems to the doors of our office (as we are in a communal building) and need clarification on the wiring of said keypad. When I operate the Key Test Switch to check the Emergency Lighting the keypads power is lost - which in my opinion should not happen as this makes me feel the contractor broke in and powered them up on the key test circuit... so unless I'm mistaken if the keypad goes wrong would this not cause power to go out on emergency light and go into emergency power mode for emergency lighting? This has been done at 3 other doors too. Our main door was like it but then we had another contractor in to fit in an electronic signing in/out system with a new keypad entry system... this does not lose power when testing emergency lighting - so feel they knew it was initially wrong and therefore sought out another power source separate from the emergency lighting circuit. So should all emergency lighting systems be powered separately (except standard lighting as it needs to monitor the power to them) from other consumer units? Any regulations you can identify for me as I need evidence to offer to our maintenance manager. The door can be opened up manually from the inside (unfortunately the door opens inwards to get out - not final door to building) so this is not the issue. The issue is nobody can enter the office during a test as the keypad is off and no other way of getting into the office unless banging on the door to be heard for someone to go open the door for them. Security wise the locks on these doors do not disengage although the new keypad door does. We also have button releases on the new door and not the old ones. I'm more for wanting to know on the regulations and requirements for powering up other systems via the emergency lighting circuits via the key test switch. As far as i'm concerned the key test switch should only operate the emergency lighting circuit for test purposes... not also power off other things like keypads.
  11. Hi again... some years since I asked this question. All is now fine as had a new contractor in to do a total rewire. My next question (in another office) is as follows:- Key Test Switches - We have keypad entry systems but a contractor has wired up the power feed to it from the Emergency lighting system - IE: when you do a key test on the EL the keypad loses power and so can't be used to gain entry into the office (this is also the case for 3 other doors into our office). I feel this is wrong as another consumer unit (keypad) has been powered by breaking into the test circuit of the EL. Is this right or should the keypad (regulations please if any are identified) be powered separately from the Emergency Lighting system - even though only the key-test circuit. I feel that all emergency systems like emergency lighting should be powered separately from other units. Dave
  12. Hi, Our large building is around six years old and has approximately 25 red call points. Most are either the two prong plastic key reset type, or the circular socket type, but some are the slide down type. We have four which are none of these and none of us can work out how to test them, as to all intents and purposes, they appear to have no means of release/reset? No holes or access points. Any advice gratefully received - Thanks Wroughtironron
  13. Hi Liz, I would say that your sensor chamber got somewhat contaminated. Try to vacuum around the slots of the alarm with a soft brush attachment. If that does not help you ought to replace the alarm head which can be done easily without an electrician. Harry
  14. Last week
  15. This morning my husband set off the smoke detector making breakfast for guests, the smoke alarms went off and we could not get it to turn off. The only way to turn them off (after 10 minutes of trying) was to turn off at mains and remove the alarms from the bases. We have tried replacing them only for alarm to start again. I have looked through manuals and searched the internet to no avail. Can anyone help?
  16. Get in contact with the manufacturer if you think the alarm is faulty it should still be under warranty depending how long you have had it.
  17. With regards your advice Tom to keep inspecting officer up to date,so far it has been a waste of time.On 2 occasions the same fireman has been across and on both occasions has made a remark that staggered me.On his first visit on showing him that the gap qauge could not be used on the hinged side of a fire door,he remarked and I quote (,I would think no gap would be better than too wide a gap).On that first visit I told him there was no signage on 4 corridor doors and none on ground floor doors.After 3 weeks and no signs on the 4 corridor doors I went out and purchased 4 signs and fitted them myself.On his second visit he commented on the fact that he now see's that signs have been put on ground floor doors.He then went on to say and I quote,(There is no sign on the door to the mobility scooter room )..When he said that I was in a state of disbelief.The mobility scooter room does not need a sign as that door is an automatic door opened with a fob. About 6 weeks ago there was a fire on the 6th floor in the block of flats I live in and I was surprised to find that instead of using the dry riser on that floor they were using the dry riser on a lower floor.As I was walking down the stairwell I spotted this and was alarmed to see the self closing stairwell door passing clear over the flat hose which had been passed through.When a fireman then turned on water supply it got as far as the door but could not go any further than the bottom of the door.A fireman coming back up the stairs on seeing this problem yanked on the door handle and pulled it clean off.I did not wait around to see what happened next. So as a concerned tenant is there a company in the North West who would carry out a fire safety assessment for someone like myself.So long as the charge is not a ridiculous one I would be willing, just to get piece of mind pay it myself. If there was such a company they would not need to inspect every floor as they would only need to inspect at the most 2 floors as all corridor doors have an incorrect gap.That is all 20 doors. Many thanks in advance Tom.
  18. Tom Sutton


    I know you can buy fire door cores and build a fire door which includes fitting side lippings. To do this you are supplied with the core and instructions (a global assessment ) which provides the information how to achieve this and include the fitting of side lippings, dictating the sizes to use. So using a wider lippings may reduce the gap to the required gap. You would need to remove the existing side lippings and replace it with a new ones but I do not know how practical this is, consequently you would have to speak to a competent joiner. I am not aware of any other methods that would be acceptable. For more information check out https://www.egger.com/shop/en_GB/interior/product-detail/FIREDOORCORES there are others if you surf the web.
  19. I've been asked to carry out an FRA for a single tenant in a warehouse that's been converted to provide managed office spaces for quite a few tenants. Essentially, the first floor has been fitted out with partition walls and a suspended ceiling to 'void' the height of the original warehouse. There are two means of escape (23m and 32m) and an L1 fire alarm system (as far as I can determine), but I'm convinced compartmentation between different occupancies should be 60 minute walls and 30 minute doors. The building was built before the war, extended in the 50s and converted to this in the 70s. Any comments? Thanks
  20. Hi, silly question but in our office we have huge amounts of portable electrical equipment such as monitors, PC's, laptops, kettles, microwaves, photocopiers, printers, etc. A typical large open plan office. The building is fitted throughout with a sprinkler system which is obviously a plus point! But, is there not a risk of electrocution or other problems if the sprinkler system activates over a piece of electrical equipment that is plugged in to the mains?? Also, when does the sprinkler stop putting water on the fire?? Does it work for a certain period of time or does it automatically somehow recognise when the flames are extinguished and stop?? We're worried it may keep throwing water on the equipment in the area(s) where a fire starts which may cause other damage. Any advice always appreciated!!
  21. So if restricted cold smoke spread is not a requirement for your design, FD30 doors may be used instead of FD30s doors. Many FD30 doors permit a 10mm gap at the threshold, check with the particular fire door manufacturer.
  22. Guest


    The gaps around fire doors installed a year ago are over the advised 2mm - 4mm so need reducing. This maybe able to be rectified with adjustment to the hinges but if not could someone please advise on the best method to close the gaps. Intumescent strips are already installed so can another stick on intumescent strip be added to either the door or frame?
  23. Where did you get, you require FD30s in a dwelling house my reading of Approved Document B (Fire Safety) Vol 1 Appendix C, table C 1, only the door between a dwelling house and an integral garage requires a FD30s fire door with self closer. As FD 20 are not readily available so you could use FD 30 fire doors and this could allow you some options regarding the ventilation. 11. In a dwelling house: Euro BS 476 p 22 a. between a dwelling house and a garage. FD 30 S a(2) FD 30 S(2) b. forming part of the enclosures to a protected stairway in a single family dwelling house E 20 FD 20 c. within any fire resisting construction in a dwelling house not described elsewhere in this table. E 20 FD 20
  24. For FD30s doors, Building Regulations ADB require compliance with BS 8214:2016 in terms of the threshold gap.
  25. Tom, A door lining is another name for a door frame often with planted stops, instead of rebated from the solid.
  26. Guest


    We are designing a three storey, timber frame house that needs FD30(s) fire doors but we are also fitting an MVHR system which needs a 10mm ventilation gap under the doors which conflict with Building Regulations. We have looked around for doors and spoken to many companies and all have not come across this before. MVHR in 3 storey cannot be new? One company suggested we use a sprinkler system. Any ideas would be welcome!
  27. Hi Neil, From what I’ve found out today, the fire door leafs were installed around 5 years ago. They hung the new fire doors on the existing frames which were standard doors originally so I’m assuming these existing frames are not fire rated. i was sent out to B&Q and purchased a FD30 frame. It has no instructions with it. I’ll check the leafs tomorrow for the manufacturers label and see what I can find out. thanks for your help!
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