AnthonyB
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Posts posted by AnthonyB
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You would need to ask your local authority Building Control department. The biggest issue would be you would removing the 'protected' hallway (a 30 minute fire resistant area) and making the other rooms 'inner rooms' requiring escape through an access room, which as a kitchen is a higher risk. Being ground floor you do have the option of escape windows to bedrooms, but:
This also affects the safety of the other flats as the protection of the common stair usually relies on 60 minute fire resistant walls with only 30 minute fire rated flat front doors on the assumption the 30 minute protected hallway and inner fire doors will add to the protection.
If the block is stay put this is more significant than if it's full evacuate.
It's not impossible to do, open plan flats do exist, but you may be expected to carry out compensatory measures which could include just additional smoke detection or potentially a domestic sprinkler system. -
On 17/04/2023 at 18:06, David N said:
Hello
Can anyone confirm the exact situation regarding replacing all Flat Front Doors with FD30s? Is this mandatory?
Regards Dave
No - it depends on the size and layout of the block. If it is deemed necessary as a result of the FRA that looks at these factors then it would be, but not as routine.
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On 14/04/2023 at 11:08, Guest fred said:
- im a sparky testthe em lights on a monthly bases at the end of the year do they need a cert an can i issue one or just need to keep a record
They need an annual full rated duration test before the question of certification even crops up, monthly function testing is not sufficient. The Responsible Person needs to be able to prove they have a suitable system of maintenance - some may feel a log book entry for the annual test will suffice, many would expect a certificate (especially if using a third party) for which model examples are available in BS5266 and template certificates available for use from the main electrical trade associations
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Depending on the nature of the building & occupancy it may be necessary to prohibit the use of part or all of it.
In other situations, waking watches, temporary systems, hand lamps, etc may be options.
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No - it doesn't direct people correctly to go through the door. Up above the door. If the wall is so low many people would just step over it, once they are outside the signage is less of an issue. What would happen if they went over the wall or left? Is the route to the right obvious?
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There are no exemptions, just the use of a risk assessed approach to the overall fire safety package of which doors are just a part.
Uprating existing heritage doors is one approach - Envirograf are very helpful with that - also English Heritage have various guides
https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/technical-advice/emergency-and-fire/fire-advice/
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FD30s. The certified door blank (& presumably matched frame and ironmongery) and intumescent seals make it FD30, the cold smoke brushes FD30s.
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Yes - but as a new build in 2014 I'd question why you have a common alarm in the first place. Building Regulations both then & now didn't/don't require them, just smoke detectors connected to smoke vents.
A lot of people think under 11m means no obligations which couldn't be further from the truth - the Fire Safety (England) Regulations only provided additional & prescriptive requirements over and above the many pre existing requirements on testing, maintenance, risk assessment and fire precautions.
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It's part of the shop's fire alarm system, as well as part of the shop's general fire precautions to protect relevant persons who would be affected by a fire in the shop premises, therefore unless provisions in any lease say otherwise (e.g. putting it on the freeholder) it's the shop's expense.
They could instead rip their false ceiling down and upgrade the fire resistance to 60 minutes instead but I know which is cheaper and less disruptive!
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Wireless systems are very established pieces of fire alarm technology and are absolutely fine complying with BS5839 and legislation, sadly there is a lot of ignorance out there amongst those who should know better!.
Grade A/Part1 wireless systems: https://www.safelincs.co.uk/wireless-fire-alarm-systems/
Grade D wireless systems: https://www.safelincs.co.uk/radio-interlinked-smoke-alarms/ (use the filter to take away the Grade F devices from the list)
I assume your FRA has determined the fire compartmentation between the flats is inadequate as that's the only reason you'd need a common system and an evacuate policy - if the required 60 minutes FR walls and floors are in place you don't need anything in the common areas as they sound too small to need a detector operated smoke control system.
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The Government guidance clearly states that buildings with the floor of the top storey under 11m are not exempt from the need for fire door checks under Article 17 of the Fire Safety Order, only that the frequency of those checks is not prescriptive as per the Fire Safety (England) Regulations, for example a smaller block may decide through their risk assessment to only check communal doors 6 monthly and only check a percentage of flat doors annually rather than trying to check all of them.
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The requirement for some form of self closer dates back to 1962 so that get out is a dead end. Unfortunately building standards in the last 25 years have dropped somewhat and it's entirely possible the building was passed whilst non compliant (which is why building control sign off isn't a defence against fire safety compliance issues - Grenfell Tower was passed by building control)
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Building Regulations aren't retrospective so if an existing situation it isn't an issue unless some alterations are being carried out that would make the premises subject to the latest edition.
Sprinklers and protected stairways are sometimes accepted as an alternative. -
The distance should be measured from all parts of the premises to the nearest place of reasonable safety which is:
• a protected stairway enclosure (storey exit);
• a separate fire compartment from which there is a final exit to a place of total safety; or
• the nearest available final exit.Check Figure 32 in the sleeping risk guide - with a bedroom on a single direction corridor the total TD should not exceed 18m to the storey or final exit of which only 9m can be travel inside the room
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Legislation isn't as strict for non domestic furniture but there is more guidance here: https://www.fira.co.uk/technical-information/flammability/fire-safety-of-furniture-and-furnishings-in-the-contract-and-non-domestic-sectors
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That's the problem facing many buildings, often you can't. I'd consult someone competent in & insured for FRAEW for advice.
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http://www.cieh.org/library/Knowledge/Housing/National_fire_safety_guidance_08.pdf is the main guidance, but as it's a bit old some councils have produced updated guidance for their areas so you should check the condition standards on the website for the council the property is located in.
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No - see the LACORS guide.
The system wouldn't sound until conditions in the common stair were unsafe and the audibility wouldn't wake most occupiers. -
They usually only illuminate on alarm and not power failure and usually wouldn't put out the right light output in the right places, but if it's a property where guidance wouldn't require normal emergency lighting and would accept torches then they may be a useful supplement
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Yes & Yes
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It depends on the size and layout of the block - if you are using a competent fire risk assessor they should have addressed this. A self closer is essential in all cases and is considered a major issue if missing.
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Most suspended ceiling systems are not fire resisting so unless there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt that it is you check above for the required fire resisting construction.
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As a small building it would be fine with a single 30 minute front door.
who is responsible for fire safety assessments?
in HMO
Posted
The management company on behalf of the OMC, who have the legal responsibility and liability. Even with a building less than 11m they are responsible for assessing the suitability of flat front doors, the only difference for higher buildings is there is a set inspection frequency as oppose to a risk based one.