Skip to content
View in the app

A better way to browse. Learn more.

Safelincs Fire Safety Forum

A full-screen app on your home screen with push notifications, badges and more.

To install this app on iOS and iPadOS
  1. Tap the Share icon in Safari
  2. Scroll the menu and tap Add to Home Screen.
  3. Tap Add in the top-right corner.
To install this app on Android
  1. Tap the 3-dot menu (⋮) in the top-right corner of the browser.
  2. Tap Add to Home screen or Install app.
  3. Confirm by tapping Install.

AnthonyB

Power Member
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by AnthonyB

  1. I suggest you take the Government Guidance as evidence and take the matter to a First Tier Tribunal for review as an excessive and unjustifiable requirement, also you need to get a copy of the block Fire Risk Assessment which, if competent, should detail the grade of fire doors required and if notional doors (those to the standard at the time of installation) are acceptable, which unless there is something really left field with your block it should. Too many 'zero to hero' poorly trained door assessors are out there chasing volume inspection work or remedial/replacement work with minimal knowledge and can't handle anything more complex than a brand new door to brand new standards. I've advised countless leaseholders on this and given evidence for FTT's as this is not an isolated issue!
  2. AnthonyB replied to a post in a topic in Fire Risk Assessments
    If your premises is 'Stay Put' it should not be a critical defect, although one that should still be promptly resolved. If it had been a High Rise Residential Building in England over 18m/7 stories then, as a fault lasting over 24 hours, there would be a legal requirement to report this to the Fire Service, however no such duty exists for your size of block, but if you are concerned you can still consult the Business Fire Safety department of your Fire Service (where enforcement officers are based including those covering flats) or for general home fire safety guidance the Community Fire Safety department
  3. As stated a swing free closer is the best solution. Whilst bathrooms are traditionally low risk from a fire door and detection point of view (unless containing unusual risk not itself enclosed like a boiler) there is precedent in England & Wales for some care premises bathrooms to be considered higher risk when electrical mobility equipment is present (particularly if with back up batteries on trickle charge which with modern equipment could be lithium ion batteries) and I have seen enforcement action down here requiring detection & self closing fire doors so it's not unprecedented.
  4. The sockets themselves contain all required safety mechanisms - https://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/
  5. How easy would you be able to walk into another job? If it's a bad as it sounds & they don't seem to care then it's time to consider 'dropping a dime' to the HSE (as we have process fire risk and H&S issues so sits more in their camp than the fire service) but even with whistle-blower protection if they think it was you then things may get awkward. Is the mixer and it's compressor ATEX as well?
  6. If you are going to add an extra detector, then to be of any use it should be part of the main system, not self contained. If it's a licensed HMO it's worth checking with the Local Authority that they accept an upgraded door in their fitness standards- traditionally upgrading with board as you suggest was an official method in many LA's local guides for many years but times change and it's worth double checking as standards do vary between LAs
  7. Could you please post a picture of the closer?
  8. Ah - Wales! Very different then!
  9. 1 - A stair landing with no rooms on/off it does not need a detector to meet The Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (England) Regulations 2015 (as amended) 2 - You can't usually link Grade D (mains) & Grade F (battery) alarms. However it sounds like the flat already has the legally required detection & under answer 1 does not need the additional one.
  10. An inward opening door cannot, by it's very nature, have a push bar or push pad type fastening (pushing & pulling at the same time is asking for disaster)- but if used by less than 60 persons it need not and a BS EN 179 type A (lever handle operated emergency device) fastening would be appropriate. If you need panic proof escape then the door would need to be rehung. If it opens directly onto the escape stair then unless it is the top floor of the escape it needs to be a fire door (of which metal ones are available)
  11. Firstly you need (it's a legal requirement) a Fire Risk Assessment by a competent specialist who will address this and any other issues. Stairs are, by their very nature, open shafts, but this is not an issue is the stair is a protected route with 30 minute fire resisting construction and 30 minute self closing fire doors with intumescent strips (or depending on a variety of factors possibly even original fire doors with a 25mm rebate). If the offices were fully legally compliant the stairway should already have this protection as well as a suitable fire detection & warning system and emergency lighting. This will give you an overview as well as links to detailed guidance: https://www.london-fire.gov.uk/media/7155/gn_03_lf_format.pdf
  12. If this is on an outer wall it does NOT need to be fixed and fire resisting unless there is an external escape stair within a 1.8m envelope. Furthermore if this is a small block of flats it could form part of the smoke control arrangements if a 'stay put' block (as openable windows are a permitted option for certain small 1991-date blocks and some small-medium legacy pre 1991 blocks)
  13. There is no requirement for the lighting in this area, it seems to be increasingly common to install EL in dwellings, bedrooms, etc despite the guidance not requiring it. Can you borrow a stepladder so you can at least obscure the LED?
  14. If correctly built to the standard of the day, risk assessed & maintained it shouldn't affect existing buildings, but will impact new ones and significant changes to existing ones
  15. AnthonyB replied to a post in a topic in Fire Exits
    Can you readily follow signs such that you will pass through every door, go up or down a stair as appropriate and change direction where not obvious? If so you are fine. Too much signage can be detrimental as they can overload viewers . It all seems a bit excessive, but is a side effect of using a Health & Safety specialist to manage fire safety which is it's own discipline.
  16. AnthonyB replied to a post in a topic in Fire Exits
    No they don't and the OP isn't taking about signs into the building for the fire service or floor signs, etc but standard fire exit signs
  17. AnthonyB replied to a post in a topic in Fire Exits
    They aren't offering to sell you those signs by any chance? Some of it is OTT! How small is the building and is there only 1 exit route? You current set up does sound in line with the risk assessment guidance, which is the legal benchmark.
  18. The way the law has been drafted as it comprises 2 or more dwellings then the external wall needs assessing as part of an FRA but not really much else, although some will interpret this as only applying if there are internal common areas as well - but the law isn't worded way
  19. In the first instance it would be you as it is your undertaking that produces the fire risk to relevant persons elsewhere in the building. However sometimes the landlord does it as they are the one with control over the overall building. You could argue that it should have been done by them before you moved in as they should have ensured the premises were compliant - regardless of the tenant's business and fit out with residential above commercial if there is insufficient fire separation there should be an alarm going back to at least 2006
  20. Low pressure (100psi, so standard airline or compressor can be used) stainless steel water extinguishers with built in Schrader valve used to be very common before 2000 with UK made Chubb or US made Badger & Amerex models being around in volume. The post 1997 move to the trade becoming disposable coupled with the 'bin it if not red' purge of 97-99 (when we moved away from fully colour coded bodies) means hardly any are left about and with the move to cheap Chinese extinguishers they are not readily obtainable new. I have a small stock as I deliberately went out of my way to save them whenever I came across them and do sell some of them off from time to time as I have more than enough for my own needs. As a lot of perfectly good extinguishers are scrapped at 5 years as hardly anyone discharge tests and refills these days many trainers will buy these surplus water and CO2 extinguishers from service companies at a far reduced price for single use. I have loads available for trainers to buy, as it seems a waste to scrap full extinguishers. If you do enough volume of training then buying a stock of new stainless steel waters, new CO2 and the head cap bars, filling adapters & Nitrogen kit ends up cheaper in the long run
  21. If you don't know what to use, perhaps an accredited passive fire protection specialist should be involved. The cheap & nasty aerosol fire foams usually have really narrow test scope, usually limited linear gaps between floors and walls, or walls and door frames and no type of service penetration. Proper non aerosol foaming products exist that can do service penetrations and very large gaps but require correct application & equipment (& cost far more). If in doubt as to the choice of systems (often there is more than one option) then this is very useful - https://firestop.hilti.com/selector
  22. You will find better guidance on doors in here - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-your-small-block-of-flats-safe-from-fire/a-guide-to-making-your-small-block-of-flats-safe-from-fire-accessible It's not up to the fire door inspector to specify what must be done but report on the status of the doors so the fire risk assessor can determine if they are to the required standard - which in some small blocks could be doors with no seals at all. However, it's quite clear that these doors did not meet the standard (FD30S smoke sealed, they sound like they meet the basic FD30 standard as larger threshold gaps are allowed) they should have done at the time so some remedial measures are likely to be required by the FRA (but not necessarily)- but not new doors and frames, just changing the intumescent strips to combined intumescent & smoke seals and reducing the threshold gap by bottom lipping or threshold seals.
  23. If the services doors are smaller and lighter than the standard size door it's feasible they may only need 2 hinges. Threshold, side and top edge gap ranges have not changed much in that time - remediation measures lesser than frame & door replacement do exist. Hopefully the forum's fire door specialist will answer at some point - we all run our own fire safety businesses so help out on here as and when we can.
  24. The 60 comes from the crush, blockage and resultant multiple fatality risk, which has led to many deaths over history, where the door has pushed shut against the flow of people trapping them. All relevant doors (serving the public) would need to open outwards as regardless of any signage in a real fire all the customers would head for the entrances they came in by. If you want to see this is action watch the raw Station Nightclub fire footage where inward opening main doors were a significant part of how 100 people died in under 90 seconds, trapped by a crush against the inward opening door - their bodies literally pile up in the doorway. Securing the doors in the open positions when open to the public is an option
  25. No, if it's the same Council I'm thinking of they lost a First Tier Tribunal over it, get your own one done after all that area isn't legally under their control to assess it's yours to manage. Th situation I dealt with was identical and other than a bit of remedial work to the front doors off the shared lobby nothing more was required as the three flats had the right fire resistance in accordance with current Government FRA standards and the tiny lobby required absolutely nothing at all. The situation in this case was worsened as being just a hallways there was no communal electricity supply for all this and thus there was a further 4- 5 figures worth of work proposed to get the Electricity Distribution Network Operator to put in a new supply and meter for 'communal' services (the alarm & EL). There is a slight chance this is all needed but unlikely (after all if there were issues they should have addressed them when they owned the whole site and were responsible for paying)

Account

Navigation

Search

Search

Configure browser push notifications

Chrome (Android)
  1. Tap the lock icon next to the address bar.
  2. Tap Permissions → Notifications.
  3. Adjust your preference.
Chrome (Desktop)
  1. Click the padlock icon in the address bar.
  2. Select Site settings.
  3. Find Notifications and adjust your preference.