AnthonyB
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Posts posted by AnthonyB
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The LACORS guidance is useful, as is ADB as it is a single large dwelling - not flats and the relevant part for dwellings should apply..
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If dealing with existing healthcare premises the MHCLG Healthcare Premises FRA guide goes into a lot more detail and is probably worth a look.
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Yes, with some exceptions - see BS7273-4
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At one point of time in history the only way glass could have the required integrity was by being wired - clear glazing simply didn't exist. Back in the day it made identifying fire resistant glazing straightforward - wired = FRG, clear = not!
In existing premises where 30 minutes performance is required and has been provided in the past for this purpose (usually as part of fire certification) it's reasonable to accept it (although there are many queuing up to condemn it and supply new glazing). Really old fire glazing with very thin wire can have issued with relation to impact safety, but usually is OK for fire.
A lot of fire door courses are black & white (not all)- today's standards or fail - but the real world (& much of the official government guidance) is far more pragmatic. -
It was once considered acceptable to meet the FD20 requirement by installing an FD30 door blank & frame but omitting the intumescent and some doors used to be dual certified for this (FD30 with seals/FD20 without).
The builders probably think this is still the case, but is no longer permitted, see these links for starters:https://www.nhbc.co.uk/binaries/content/assets/nhbc/tech-zone/nhbc-standards/tech-guidance/6.7/fd20-fire-doors-eng-wales.pdf
https://www.jbkind.com/uploads/pdfs/JBK_Fact_Sheet_FD20_and_FD30.pdf -
The guidance says no - any use in this situation would have to be mitigated with a rationale as to why it doesn't compromise safety in that specific situation. Ultimately a court or determination would decide if it was suitable to meet the legislation.
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On 08/11/2022 at 10:49, Hayfever said:
We use a rather more pragmatic approach to fire action notices (FAN)
FANs by a final exit will rarely be read during business as usual and frankly when the final exit is in use during an evacuation, its a bit too late.
We do place FANs by manual call points (including final exits), but frankly they are there to appease panicky fire safety inspecting officers. In addition, we also place them at tea points where staff gather and controversially at eye level (when sitting) on the back of toilet cubicle doors.
The last example may sounds a bit silly/jokey, but it is the location where you have a captive audience who is unintentionally hungry to read something during their stay, as opposed to adjacent to a door to a staircase where nobody hangs around.
The beauty of the current legislation is that that is completely acceptable, not like the old days of more rigidity.
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Usually you's see it, but it's not always been the case. Even now fire lifts can open into the corridor as long as they are within 7.5m of the stair door
The shaft will generally always be protected in relation to the walls, often being brick & block, the vulnerability being the doors , which whilst some will give 30 minutes fire resistance are poor at stopping smoke. In some buildings in the past it was common to fit a self closing fire door in front of the lift opening to overcome this, particularly with concertina and open lift car doors, but it's less common in flats as they weren't covered by fire safety legislation until 2005
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Blue 60 is for frames not glazing, so that's out - it ideally needs to be a solution designed & tested for glazing such as Envirograf Products 79 & 109.
If the doors are third party certified blanks with the glazing being added later on site then in most cases that's the certification gone out of the window (excuse the pun!) as most manufacturers only allow glazing to be added by the manufacturer themselves during production or by accredited installers at their workshops to a defined spec.
Depends on the remit of the consultant - if just risk assessing, then solutions would potentially be out of their scope (& training), if specifically carrying out fire door inspections then you would be more entitled to expect a detailed action plan - although the training of some door inspectors seems to be so brief that 'replace everything' seems to be their only answer to all problems!
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There isn't an N at the moment. Different parts will include reference to glazing in different contexts, e.g. Part B for fire, Part L for energy performance/insulation, etc
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/approved-documents
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Yes as the door will be used by less than 60
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You can make it as difficult as you want to get in as long as you can readily escape outwards. Having two fastenings isn't ideal as it complicates escape and renders the push bar pointless as the exit is no longer panic proof (i.e. pressure of people against the door/bar opens it without having to carry out any positive action) although the numbers expected to use the exit are likely to be under the typical benchmark where it needs to be panic proof as most sheltered housing is "stay put unless in communal space" on hearing an alarm
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It should always in theory have been an up arrow, but confusion set in with the example pictograms used in the UK implementation of the EU Safety Signs Directive in 1996 (The Health and Safety Regulations 1996). Rather than continue the use of our existing BS 5499-1:1990 pictogram & arrows it copied the example European signs from the Directive and we ended up with the man/arrow/door symbol and three arrow variants - Left, Right, Down.
Things went full circle in 2013 with the EC Directive sign being supplanted by the BS EN ISO 7010 exit signage (very similar to the old BS5499 system) which went back to the 8 directional arrows including up for straight on.
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Answered your PM
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Firstly define 'kitchen'. Does it have a cooker, or is it just a tea/break out point with kettle, microwave, toaster (which can be totally open plan)?
Secondly do the offices and staff room either side both have their own exits or would you create inner and possibly even inner inner rooms by adding doors?Absolutely no need for FD60 and possibly not even FD30 either (a door would probably be wedged anyway).
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Where necessary is a reflection that specific provisions are determined by Fire Risk Assessment.
Exit doors don't (& never have) had to open in the direction of escape unless likely to be used by 60 or more persons - this has formed a part of fire safety guidance for a very long time.
Call point signage, like some other fire safety signage, isn't explicit in the Order, however some slack in the specific detail is filled by the Health & Safety (Safety Signs & Signals) Regulations 1996 which also covers fire safety signs, but even this isn't definitive on these signs. Strictly speaking they are not required as a matter of course based on the way the law is drafted because the actual call point is required to be red with a pictorial symbol under EN54 the fire alarm component construction standard so in effect signs itself - in theory only if obstructed or hidden or requiring location in a large open area would it need additional signage to ensure the fire alarm is readily usable. It's likely this is poor drafting of the legislation (it's full of poor writing) as in other EU countries (who adopted similar legislation as the Fire Safety Order continues the UK's earlier implementation of an EU directive for worker fire safety via the Fire Precautions (Workplace) Regulations) mostly routinely sign their call points.
What is more common here is to place Fire Action Notices next to call points as a continuation of the practice that used to be a legal requirement under Fire Certification via the Fire Precautions Act, although even this technically isn't mandatory.
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It depends on who did the report. Whilst many fire safety consultants will clearly show which actions, in their opinion, are considered necessary for compliance with your duties under the order and which are 'value added' optional good practice, others will phrase everything as a recommendation because you, the Responsible Person, decide what to do, not them.
This means it's possible, with some reports, to not do something on the basis it's a 'recommendation' yet leave persons at risk from fire and be liable to prosecution. Compartmentation is critical in blocks of flats so it's very rare for an issue with it not to be necessary for compliance.
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External stair? Difficult without photos, possibly not.
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If you don't change the side glazing (& it isn't already to the required fire resistance) then there is little value in changing the door.
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Such products exist, such as those from Envirograf, and some do have test data to back up their efficacy. Whilst this would generally suffice to satisfy regulatory requirements if you require the benefit of third party certification of the whole doorset to be maintained you would need to check with the manufacturer of the door & frame for compatibility with their test certification.
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Not at all - it is desirable, but does not become mandatory until the door is required for use by 60 persons.
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The whole system is well out of it's lifespan, over 20 years or so. Places like Acorn might have some old stock (including 34000 stuff that will work on it), otherwise it's time to move over to a Vigilon panel and replacement S-Quad devices, it's backwards compatible so the other old devices can be retained.
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Shop with two flats above
in Landlords
Posted
It's not adequate. A common area only system will not provide the required audibility to rouse sleeping occupiers without sounders (& a heat detector usually as well so a flat fire in a flat where the occupant is out is detected before it affects the common parts) in at least the flat internal hallway to achieve 85dB at the bedroom doors as a minimum (should be 75dB bedhead but the 85dB at the bedroom door is a commonly accepted variation to avoid the need to extended into the bedroom).
This assumes the premises require a full evacuation strategy.
Sounds like you need a new better FRA as well!