[Fire detection system in pre-1991 converted flat communal hall]

You do not need a dedicated landlord supply as long as pre payment meters aren't used, Part 6 does allow this.

A small building like yours may have sufficient fire resistance to not require a strategy change to evacuate and thus require a common alarm - a small hallway wouldn't require smoke control for stay put either.

Whilst a converted house pre 1991 is likely to require an evacuation strategy and common alarm (including devices into each flat) it's not automatic ,just as it isn't automatic that a post 1991 conversion will always be stay put & no alarm - it depends on the premises and there are both older conversions that can be stay put and newer ones that can't.

Was there any attempt to determine the level of compartmentation in the FRA or was it an automatic assumption it needed the change?

The guidance is applicable to buildings of all ages and has a statutory status where not following it tends to prove a breach of the legislation so it's wise to follow it - if it is being correctly applied to your situation.

Grade F devices would be acceptable as a short term solution with a view to installing the more robust Grade D in due course.

 

[External balcony walkways]

Can you escape in either direction along the walkway?

[Modern Vs older conversion]

Rough guide for existing premises from current guidance:

Notional 30 minutes fire resistance – typically timber floors with lath and  plaster ceilings.
Full 30 minutes fire resistance – typically timber floors with plasterboard ceilings

Guidance for uprating timber floors accepted a 12.5mm  plasterboard (or 6mm of certain calcium silicate board such as Promat Masterboard) with a plaster skim to the underside of the joists, although different types of board products require different thicknesses and need checking with a manufacturer

[Fire doors in a domestic 3 storey house]

It complied at the time of last relevant 'building work' so unless carrying out alterations which would require the application of current standards you are fine.

[Do I really need emergency lighting?]

BS5266 - it doesn't say you don't need them but doesn't list them as being where you do - similarly with the gov.uk fire safety guides

[Grade D alarm system in single let property]

Utter nonsense.

Grade D is mains with battery back up, D1 being tamperproof back up, D2 user replaceable back up. All devices are the same power source and interlinkable.

A battery only system is Grade F and only really suitable for legacy single dwellings and flats and over time would be phased out as new, builds, conversions and rewires see Grade D installed as minimum.

You don't mix Grades other than a HMO or conversion to flats where you may have a Grade A common system and Grade D to individual flats/bedsits

Grade D:LD2 is a system comprising interlinked mains powered with back up smoke & heat alarms with smoke to Alarms in hallways and landings (circulation spaces & escape routes) plus high risk rooms (at least heat to kitchen and smoke to principle habitable room, i.e. living room)

The only situation I could see mixed in place is where the statutory requirement is Grade D:LD3 (new builds, re-wires, etc although LD2 is more common now) and additional voluntary protection is provided to other areas and to save money and ease installation Grade F is used - however unless interlinked the added value is grossly reduced (Grade F are more likely to be removed, flat battery or no battery hence the move towards Grade D)

[Modern Vs older conversion]

Possibly. Depending on the conversion work & materials used you may have 30 mins FR already.

[Smoke Ventilation in older building.]

On 17/01/2024 at 19:19, Guest Anthony M said:

HI Guys,

Are you able to advise on a smoke vent concern please?

Its a four storey purpose built block, probably built in 80's.

3 flats on ground
6 flats on first
6 flats on second
6 flats on third.

There are no lobbies, its all open corridors throughout.

All doors to flats and cupboards are FD30s.

Travel distance seems to be 10m from furthest door to stair area

There only VENTILATION is the front and rear entrance/exit doors at the bottom, and a high level manually openable roof hatch on the third floor. But you would need a ladder to reach it as its quite high up.

There is no possible way to install windows on any floor.

I don't think we need to upgrade to AOV because the Purpose Built Guide says that as the block is less than six storeys, and is unlobbied, manually opening vents or windows are acceptable (as per 62.11 of  LGA Fire safety in purpose-built blocks of flats).'

But I am wondering if our set up is acceptable of just one out of reach manually opening hatch at top of stairwell, of should we change the roof hatch to remotely opening, or at least connect to a handle which can be operated from the landing level?

Thank you so much for any advice.

Kind regards,

Ant M
 

I'd need to see it as part of an FRA to be sure, but the current edition of the official guidance would allow, as a legacy building, OV. However they would need to be readily openable so some alterations would be necessary as you suggest

[Do I really need emergency lighting?]

No, individual bedrooms don't automatically require emergency lighting under standards or guidance, it's bending the terminology in BS5266 to sell more lighting & installation.

[Timeline for introduction of LED emergency lighting in the UK]

Fortunately we still have some UK manufacturers of EL - try these who may have some insight as they've been around over 50 years - https://blelighting.co.uk/

[Liability for doors failing fire safety review]

Whilst recent changes in legislation have been more prescriptive in maintenance intervals there has always been a requirement for planned maintenance of fire doors under Article 17 of the Fire Safety Order and this has been re-emphasised in the latest guidance due to confusion that it was new or only applied to certain heights of building.

[Fire insulation for flats?]

This would be subject to Building Regulations so this would be your reference: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/639ae7e98fa8f5069839c7d7/Approved_Document_B__fire_safety__volume_1_-_Dwellings__2019_edition_incorporating_2020_and_2022_amendments.pdf

 

[Electricity cupboards]

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 - 8 Duty to take general fire precautions.

The fire stopping forms part of the general fire precautions to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the safety of any of his employees; and in relation to relevant persons who are not his employees, take such general fire precautions as may reasonably be required in the circumstances of the case to ensure that the premises are safe - by stopping the spread of fire/smoke though the building affecting escape.

[Holiday let]

From the applicable Government guidance (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64257cff2fa8480013ec0fec/A_guide_to_making_your_small_paying-guest-accommodation_safe_from_fire.pdf)

"In the event of a fire, evacuating the premises is the safest thing to do and guests should not be expected to use firefighting equipment.
If you have staff on the premises, or if they regularly visit the premises, firefighting equipment should be provided, and staff should be trained on how to use the equipment.
You will need to make sure that the instructions on how to use any firefighting equipment are clear, that there is a warning that evacuation is preferable, and that staff should not put themselves at risk or tackle anything other than a very small fire.
In self-catering accommodation, although guests are not expected to use fire-fighting equipment, you may wish to provide a small multi-purpose fire extinguisher and/or fire
blanket in the kitchen area.

You can buy suitable multi-purpose extinguishers, guaranteed for five years, from a range of larger DIY outlets. You should check the gauge regularly to make sure the ‘stored pressure’ has not leaked. Low maintenance 10-year extinguishers are also available. Multi-purpose powder fire extinguishers should not be provided, as they are not suitable for use in enclosed spaces."

5 year multi purpose extinguisher https://www.safelincs.co.uk/1-litre-water-mist-fire-extinguisher-ultrafire/

Low maintenance multi purpose extinguisher https://www.safelincs.co.uk/britannia-p50-2ltr-water-mist/

 

[When selling flat, do I need a fire risk assessment?]

There is nothing to assess other than the external wall which would inevitably be low risk due to the small height of the property, it would be pointless to have an FRA as 99% of it would just say 'n/a' Some of the government guidance has said small sites like this are not intended to be subject to the full legal regime that would if there were areas in common. 

[Neighbour blocking fire exit]

As the properties involved are both single private dwellings the fire service have no jurisdiction as the relevant fire safety legislation does not apply. I assume you have a normal front entrance? Most houses only need a single final exit door so the rear route may not be a formal escape under Building Regulations.

Do you have a covenant, deed or other formal written legal right of access over the adjoining houses' land? 

This may be a civil matter and you should ask a relevant solicitor.

[Mr]

If the tenant and managers aren't doing anything, you should inform the business fire safety department of your fire & rescue service.

 

The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005

Emergency routes and exits

14.—(1) Where necessary in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that routes to emergency exits from premises and the exits themselves are kept clear at all times.

[Mrs]

The self closing devices are fully adjustable so should be able to close more softly, especially as, unlike flat front doors, they don't have a lock latch to overcome.

Doors and closers don't need replacing just because the strips are painted over, just the strips do (and if they are not fitted with smoke brushes or fins can be painted anyway)

If they are taking a very long time to repair them and you have concerns your fire service's fire safety enforcement team may be able to help.

[School Science Rooms]

How old is the school?

Schools Fire Design Guidance (originally BB7 for decades, currently BB100) is quite clear.

A lab did not need to have fire doors in older versions of BB7, only the (higher risk) technicians room. If however the lab was on an initial dead end corridor or onto a stair or stair lobby then it did need a fire door, just as any room other than a toilet did.

BB100 & the latter versions of older guidance requires them to be fire doors.

I've done a fair amount of school fire work including advising on compartment boundaries - the requirements on doors and walls are quite relaxed for schools.

[Perkos on fire doors]

You might as well leave it rather than damage the door, it's likely to be notional only which is either acceptable if a low rise block or needs complete replacement anyway if in a high rise.

[Apartment Fire Regulations - Apartment]

It's not as clear cut in Scotland as their equivalent of the Fire Safety Order excludes common areas of flats (other than maintaining fire service facilities like dry risers) and a fire risk assessment is not a legal requirement. Only Housing & Tenement legislation for which  rather vague requirements apply if not a licensed HMO.

[Responsibility for fire alarm system in rented business property]

On 15/12/2023 at 07:42, Guest Business Alarms said:

I live in rented accommodation above a butcher’s shop. My fire/ smoke alarms regularly go off early mornings and I believe it has something to do with the ovens at the butchers below us. Should my alarms and theirs be connected in this way at all? Or should their alarms be different to mine and only theirs go off instead of the whole building?

If the fire compartmentation between the butchers and your flat is not good enough (usually needs to be a 60 minute fire resistant floor/ceiling) then a fire in the shop could quickly breach into your flat, potentially with fatal results (especially at night). Where this is the case (often due to the age of a property) it's usual to have fire detection in the shop linked to the flats above.

They may have incorrect detectors - they should have heat detectors where the ovens are so they won't false alarm but would still activate before even a non fire resistant ceiling failed.

[Communal stairs not enclosed]

The Article 50 Guidance sums up the scope of the law as follows (my highlighting):
"The Guide is intended to support the application of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (as amended) and the Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 to the common parts of small blocks of flats (limited to 3 storeys) as well as the building’s structure, external walls and the doors between the flats and common parts. This includes premises with more than one storey, which has its own private exit, and within which there are no internal spaces used by more than one household, such as common hallways, landings and stairwells (“maisonettes”). "

[New Article 21A of the Regulatory Reform Fire Safety Order 2005]

But not all supported housing is a single dwelling - I have been to several that are:

- Purpose Built Flats

- HMO's

- Sheltered Housing

 

[Apartment Fire Regulations - Apartment]

It's very wrong if in the UK! You should probably be in touch with your local fire service enforcement team as well as your local council housing enforcement team, it has illegal flat conversion written all over that description - you aren't in a London Borough by any chance?