AnthonyB
-
Posts
2,324 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by AnthonyB
-
-
1 - No, it sounds like the exit width is provided via the full door and, as is common, the half leaf is for where extra width is temporarily needed, e.g. moving large items/furniture, hence why it's bolted. If the full leaf and a half was required for escape width as sometimes is the case then the half door would/should have no bolts and a self closer.
2- I'll let the forum's fire door specialist address this next time he logs on
-
American La France was owned by ASCOA after acquisition from Sterling Precision Instruments and before sale to Figgie"
-
On 17/01/2023 at 20:12, Guest Nick said:
I am wondering if anyone has any information on this fire extinguisher (Years made, company info, rarity?) I cannot find any info. online on a Coronet extinguisher. Thanks!
From my fellow experts from across the pond:
"American La France 2-3/4 lb. Dry chemical. I have a later version. Not super common with this name plate. Maybe $20-25 to the right person." -
Not really unless the premises have temporary mitigation measures in place. The room sounders are there because the corridor sounders will not rouse a fair percentage of people in bedrooms - studies showed people asleep in unfamiliar locations actually need higher sound pressures hence the change in standards over 40 years ago to have sounders in bedrooms.
-
If you ask US based extinguisher preservationists you will get a value for this. It's in good condition and has a particular branding different to the more common ones for this model (sold under various different brands) so whilst not worth serious money could fetch a few dollars or more to the right person.
If you use Facebook this group is full of expert knowledge from several counties (including the US) and will give you far more info: Antique Fire Extinguisher Collectors/Current Extinguisher users -
No, the main reason water mist and stuff like Firexo get bad press from the trade is that it reduces the numbers they sell and have to maintain. These emerging new technologies have gone through the required EN3 fire tests and can provide single extinguisher type solutions for a wide range of premises and work types.
-
They must be on the side where people are escaping from, so when moving in the direction of escape you will have a green breakglass. BS7273-4 covers this.
-
An EICR is a legal requirement in all rented dwellings not just licensed HMO's. I strongly urge you contact your local council Environmental Health (primary enforcers for houses & HMOs) as you are in a rogue landlord property - The Housing Act covers all properties, licensed or not and should meet the requirements of the Housing Health & Safety Rating System.
You may be able to take legal action as the attempts to evict could be classed as aa 'revenge' eviction for you complaining - seek advice from Shelter & the Citizens Advice Bureau -
Powder is common as very cheap and suitable for everything in the home other than cooking oils - it's very, very messy though. Water Mist has the same all round cover, but also can cover cooking oil risks too and is far less messy so is worth the extra cost.
A fire blanket can be handy to - but only if it's a Kitemarked one as sold by Safelincs - many online marketplaces sell cheap imports that are counterfeit and don't work effectively -
9 hours ago, tim1619 said:
yes it is Anthony
Can't see the point then!
-
No, you are legally required to keep the system operational, you have a service charge budget for a reason, so you should be able to get it sorted. The insurance company should be aware of the system being down and appropriate mitigation in place or you risk loss of cover.
-
Unless carrying out a change to the building that would come under Building Regulations then inside a private dwelling the most you would be expected to do is maintain the doors to the standard approved at original installation/build.
-
On 03/01/2023 at 09:48, tim1619 said:
Thanks Anthony,
Door 2 leads to a largish foyer with means of escape in both directions, one immediately outside to an ultimate place of safety and other way through the rest of the building to several other exits.
cheers
Tim
Is the door from the public half into the same foyer?
-
Possibly you can use both - Offices & Shops for that part of the building and Factories & Warehouses for the other, assuming the layout is such that one distinct part of the building is the warehousing and the other the shop.
You aren't always forced to use one guide for the whole of a building if it has different usage groups, just the appropriate one for the use, occupancy and risks of the distinct areas. If they are so overlapping and intermingled it may be different - without seeing it I can't be definitive. -
On 26/12/2022 at 17:33, Fairlineguy said:
Hi All
I have a HMO the alarm system was installed in the late 1990s it comprises of a Firedex 2204 conventional 4 zone panel,
8 heat detectors,2 smoke,8 sounders.2 call points .
My question is the wire is all in trunked house 2 core electrical cable which doesn’t meet current standards. Clearly when it was installed it meet the standards of the day does this need to be changed or does it only need to be replaced if a new system is installed.
Actually it didn't meet the standard of the day as the sounders have always (since 1980 & earlier) needed to be in fire resistant cabling so the system is non compliant as a fire could quickly result in a failure of the alarm system to warn people. Sadly a lot of fire alarm systems have and are installed wrongly, often by general electricians.
The sounder circuits would need to be recabled in fire resistant cabling but the rest can remain as long as the internal panel settings (as can be configured by the fire alarm engineer) as set to "Short Circuit = Fire". This setting is used in older systems where the call point and detector cabling isn't fire resistant so that if fire damages these cables the fire panel will go into "Fire" & activate the alarm sounders. If the panel isn't set up this way then fire damage to the cable will only result in the fire panel going into "Fault" and the alarm sounders won't go off.
-
On 21/12/2022 at 11:56, Guest THS said:
Some of the fire extinguishers in our office have labels on to record inspections, but nothing is written on them. I guess this is ok if they new and the annual service isn't due yet?
If correctly installed. assembled and commissioned by a competent person they should all have completed service labels with commissioning date and weight on as well as next extended service/overhaul date (some will also have next basic service weight on too) .
If they've been bought off a catalogue then they may have no labels or blank labels and not commissioned (so possibly not ready for safe and effective use)
These labels are for the service technician to record the commissioning service, annual basic service and 5 years extended service/10 year overhaul on.
The end user is meant to check the extinguishers at least monthly visually for being in the correct location, damage, broken tamper seals, gauges (where fitted) in green - this is usually recorded in a separate paper or online log book.
-
Hatches are no longer routinely acceptable as escape routes in any case, they are very last century except in isolated plant rooms on roofs.
Where does door 2 lead to? What automatic detection is there?Travel distance and occupancy wise single escape and single direction of travel is fine in the pictured area, so the issue must be with the area the outlet opens onto, but there's nothing that jumps out in the picture as requiring a by pass route.
-
9 hours ago, Guest martin nash said:
AnthonyB. Isn’t the service riser cupboard a ‘protected shaft’? So allowing cables etc to pass vertically through the building without fire stopping every floor?
Depends on the block, layout, fire resistance of the walls, fire strategy etc.
Often service risers are indeed protected shafts with 60 minute walls and either 30 or 60 minute doors and don't need stopping at each floor (& sadly some RP's have spent substantial amounts on stopping after being erroneously advised it was required), sometimes the design is to continue a compartment floor so as to have service cupboards, you do see both approaches. -
The interior of the flat is not a Fire Safety Order/Fire Safety Act/Fire Safety (England) Regulations matter - just the front door and walls. So no, not part of the checks.
The interior is, if rented, a Housing Act/Housing Health & Safety Rating System issue and the recommendations in the LACORS guide apply for the standard of door.I dealt with a similar situation in a 60's block, answered as below.
Flat internal doors do not form part of the common areas or the boundary with them and fall
outside the scope of the Fire Safety Order (as amended)As built before 1971 the flats would be expected to have a hallway approach with Type 3 20
minute fire check doors to the kitchen & living room (where these are off the hall) but not the
bedrooms or bathrooms. Post 1971 the bedrooms were added to require fire doors, a situation
which is virtually unchanged to today bar the door standard has changed from FD20 to FD30
and self closers are not required.The doors within flats would only be the client’s responsibility if they are the landlord issuing
tenancies to the flats and then under the Housing Act and not general fire safety legislation.The current approved guidance for general needs rented accommodation is the LACORS guide
to “Fire Safety in certain types of Housing” used by local authority enforcement as part of the
Housing Health & Safety Rating System.
For flats over 4 stories it would expect fire doors to risk rooms and the original CP3 provision of
fire check doors to kitchens and lounges would be in line with this. Whilst the expectation is for
an FD30 doorset, the presence of a higher level of automatic fire detection (LD2 rather than the
LD3 minimum in both LACORS and the Smoke & Carbon Monoxide (England) Regulations 2015
(as amended 2022) and thus covering the risk rooms) would be a reasonable mitigation.
As a flat is renovated or a damaged door reported and requiring renewal it would be reasonable
to expect new FD30 doors to be introduced. -
Sadly that is the level of fire safety enforcement these days - it's very difficult to get them to enforce anything other than the most desperate situations - some are worse than others!
Next stop is to try and get the press and resident fire safety pressure groups interested in the story. -
If the door is on a hold open, then it's a self closing fire door held open until the fire alarm sounds, or if you release it manually from the hold open it's kept shut. If you want to keep it shut you can, but if you want it open it should only be done by the door retainer (e..g not a wedge or by disconnecting the self closer). Ideally a free swing closer should have been used which allows the door to be open at any angle but will always shut - but that would have cost them a lot more!
Personally I'd never buy anything from the last 20 years as regardless of being signed off at the time a large quantity are full of fire safety defects and shortcuts - even the furore after Grenfell hasn't really stopped this.
-
On 07/07/2015 at 14:44, Guest LindaPur said:
I live in flat, my neighbour has taken out his smoke/ fire alarms that were in his flat. He has taken them out because he says they are not cosmetically pleasing. I am worried in case there is a fire in his flat. Please could you tell me, if he could be forced to replace the fire/smoke alarms? He is an owner occupier
Alarms for their own protection - no. Alarms part of a communal system - yes.
-
On 18/12/2022 at 16:22, Guest sophiejo said:
Our flats' mad fire alarm tester has already caused me an episode of loss of hearing. May I discontect my flat's alarm from the communal system?
No, that would potentially be an offence. Remove the local one that only alerts you at your own risk (only you will die and statistically that's very likely where smoke alarms are rendered unworking) but you can't put other people at risk without consequence.
Have you actually tried raising this with the managing agent? Depending on the layout of your flat there may be a possibility of adjusting the volume if it will still meet the required minimum, also the alarm shouldn't sound for more than a few seconds - if it is lasting longer they aren't testing it right (need either two staff or use the walk test mode on the panel). -
Lot's of factors to consider - staffing, size, person centred FRA & PEEP results, numbers of residents, etc. Extra care is still largely indepwndant living with more help available if needed and bridges the gap between sheltered housing and residential care. Therefore, subject to the build & other factors, stay put as oppose to progressive horizontal evacuation is indeed an option - but not the default without assessment and should be case by case.
You really only have the NFCC guide as before this there was nothing for non general needs housing except for sheltered and care homes for which the approach hasn't changed for quite some time.
Solenoid lock in fire exit door
in Fire Exits
Posted
They are certainly frowned upon in the Government Fire Safety Guides:
"Electromechanical devices
Electromechanical devices comprise electromechanical lock keeps and draw bolts, which can be controlled by people inside the premises by entering a code or by using ‘smart cards’, which have been adapted to control the exit from certain areas. These devices have been fitted in many premises and may be linked to the fire-detection and/or warning system.
Experience has shown that these devices can fail to open in a number of ways. They are dependent on a spring mechanism to return the lock keep or draw bolt(s) and are liable to jam when pressure is applied to the door. It is also relatively easy to fit them incorrectly. Electromechanical locking devices are normally unacceptable on escape doors, unless they are fitted with a manual means of overriding the locking mechanism, such as a push bar, push pad or lever handle or they do not rely on a spring mechanism, fail-safe open and are not affected by pressure, in which case the criteria for electromagnetic devices should be applied."