Fire doors in a domestic 3 storey house

[Tom Sutton]

It is likely to be subject to the Building Regulations therefore you should contact building control and get their advice.

[Guest Paul T]

Hi,

I have just built a new 3 storey house.  On the final inspection the Building Control surveyor advised me that the FD30 doors needed to be fitted with intumescent strips or that the door stops should be replaced with thicker ones (20mm x 50mm).  Can you please advise whether he is correct?

[AnthonyB]

If they need to be FD30 doors they should have the strips. The old 'inch door stop' suggested as an alternative is an obsolete method that predates the invention & wide adoption of intumescent seals (>40 years ago) and should not be advised in new builds.

If it's a single family dwelling it doesn't even need to be an FD30 door. An FD20 door will suffice - as these aren't widely available however FD30S door sets are widely used. It used to be common to accept an FD30 door without intumescent strips as it was assumed that the required 20 minutes integrity would still be gained but in recent years this has been found to be unreliable and is now deprecated and to do this would invalidate the doorset's certification (http://www.premdor.co.uk/pdf/fire-door-explanation.pdf).

So in essence:
- Intumescent strips: Yes
- Inch stop: No!

 

 

[Guest Whittard]

Hello, we'd like to change the room in the uppermost storey of our house (which is more than 4.5m above ground level) to a bathroom (only). The loft was converted by the previous owners, but they didn't obtain building regs sign-off. Will we now need to provide a protected stairway to, or an alternative means of escape from, the new bathroom? Any advice gratefully received!

[AnthonyB]

This should have been picked up in the survey when you bought it and either compliance required before signing the contract or the seller required to provide building regulations indemnity insurance for you in case you get enforcement action taken.

Unless the conversion was in the last year or so it's too late for the local authority to require you to regularise the work if you leave it as is - but if you carry out any new work affecting the area in question the clock resets and you would be expected to have a compliant situation at the end.

The fact that it is going from a bedroom to a bathroom may count in your favour though.

You need to speak to a Building Regs expert to be sure though.

[Guest Bec Bruce]

Hi

We live in a 3 story Edwardian property. There is an original 3rd floor. We have built a new kitchen extension with the original Edwardian external French doors remaining as access into the new kitchen space. My question is, if the house has never had fire doors do we need to replace all the doors upstairs to pass regs. Or do we just need to replace the kitchen French doors to new fire doors? 

 

[AnthonyB]

As you should have gone through Building Control for this work they should have told you before signing it off. If you have been naughty and just gone ahead you need to get them in to regularise the work at which point they will tell you of any extra work needed.

If you don't you don't only just risk prosecution you will find you have trouble when selling if the buyers surveyor & solicitor is in any way competent plus insurer's will love the get out of paying grounds too.

I assume you haven't obtained planning permission as it's covered by permitted development - however too many people don't realise that whilst permitted development avoids the need to go through planning it absolutely does not avoid the need for Building Regulations approval.

You are unlikely to have to change the rest of the house though, they will only look at the extension and where it joins the original house as the building work shouldn't change/affect the rest of the premises.

[Mike North]

Reading the building regulations, it is quite clear that these fully cover new buildings.  They also cover material alteration and material change of use.

New builds and existing buildings will have to meet the requirements of the regulations that where in force at the time of construction/design.  There is no part of the regulation that requires the building to be brought up to the latest regulation.

For refurbished/altered buildings, we have to rely on SI 2214:2010 (building Regs) paragraphs 3, 4 and 6, for paragraph 3 the requirements for works comes under paragraph 4, the last paragraph of which in this section states that, where it did not comply before the works there is no requirement for it to comply as long as it is no worse than before the works started.

In summary, if an item is to the current regulations, it must be maintained to it, there is no requirement to bring any item that does not meet the current regulations to the current regulations.  If an item is replacement this then becomes a material alteration and will require installing to the current regulations, there will be no expectation within the regulations to bring the remainder of the building up to the latest regulation.

[Guest Cristina]

Hello

We have bought a 1930's ex council house couple of years ago with the plan of extending quite a bit on 3 sides to ground floor and into the loft....I have been told we will need to change the internal doors to the first floor into fire doors, but reading few of these questions and answers above I am now wondering what else does it need to be FR? ( door handles, hinges etc) We are now in the process of refurbishing the 1st floor and plan ahead of the loft conversion and install fire doors and windows suitable for fire escape. many thanks

[Neil ashdown]

Table C1 at page 138 of Approved Document B of the Building Regulations deals with requirements for fire resisting doors in dwelling houses with loft conversion 

 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/937931/ADB_Vol1_Dwellings_2019_edition_inc_2020_amendments.pdf 

For information about hardware / ironmongery for fire doors, consult the guidance document 'Code of Practice -Hardware for Fire & Escape Doors' at http://www.firecode.org.uk/ 

 

[Tom Sutton]

Yes when you provide new fire doors all the fittings have to be up to standard as indicated in "Code of Practice -Hardware for Fire & Escape Doors" also the guidance in ADB vol 1.

[Guest Joshua B]

Hello,

We are looking for some advice on our property.

We have extensively renovated our four-storey Victorian terrace and we are wondering whether we need fire doors on all the habitable rooms off the hallways to an exit?

The property has always been a four-storey house but we have greatly improved the property and added a small two-storey extension and properly tanked out the basement to make it more liveable. 

We intended to replace all the original cheap doors with accoya doors and I would like to advice on whether, by regulations, the new doors must be fire doors. The original doors were not fire doors. 

The habitable rooms have not changed dimensionally, only improved. 
 

Many thanks,

[Neil ashdown]

I would contact local building control on this one.

[Guest Babs]

Original big heavy solid wood doors. No hollow innards. Are they qualified as fire doors?

attic single dwelling leading down to custom built stairs (removing existing Ramsey) to the main floor in a 2.5 story. Where will fire doors be required  if all parts of main property have the 1940 hardwood doors

Thanks

 

[Guest Anna]

I'm just about to start refurbishing a Victorian 3 storey terrace house and the doors are the original big solid timber doors, absolutely gorgeous, but I have just been told that these will have to be replaced with new fire doors.

I'm gutted about it, it's part of the character of the house, it would be sacrilege to remove these lovely doors, is it really true that they won't comply with building regulations and they have to go?

Thanks

[Neil ashdown]

Maybe the doors could be upgraded to improve their fire resistance performance.

Historic England  https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/fire-resistance-historic-timber-panel-doors/

Building regs Page 135 Fire doors 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/937931/ADB_Vol1_Dwellings_2019_edition_inc_2020_amendments.pdf

[Guest fay]

Hi i was after some advise please. i moved into a rented property 3 storey house and there is no kitchen door.  is it a legal requirement that the door should be on there.  the estate agent said i have to pay for someone to fit the door   any advise would be appreciated   i live with my three children aged 11 15 17. 

[Neil ashdown]

In a three storey house, in scope of building regulations, doors opening onto the staircase, landings and hallway should be fire doors. This is so that the doors, when closed, would protect the entire escape route from top floor to the entrance door from fire spread. 

So if the kitchen opens onto that route, then it should have a fire door.

Also, any door inside the house to an integral garage should be a thirty minute fire door with self-closer and smoke seals.

[Guest Robert Caldwell]

In a 3 storey private house do you have to put fire doors on all floors or just the top floor ?

[Guest Mike]

I had a Building Regs approved loft conversion in 2003, I don't remember the details but I am therefore assuming that all doors met the necessary FD requirements at the time - they were certainly fitted with self-closing mechanisms where necessary. These have been removed over the years as I'd heard anecdotally that they were no longer required. 

I found the mechanisms in my shed the other day - is it OK to throw them out?

[Guest Martin]

Just for clarification.

I am buying a 3 storey house from the year 2000. I understand that all habitable rooms have to have 44mm FD20 fire doors fitted.

1. Do they have to have intumescent fire seals fitted, as they haven't at the minute?

2. Do they have to be self closing? Currently all the doors are self closing but when I replace the new fire doors I would prefer that I don't have to fit the self closers again.

[AnthonyB]

On 06/05/2022 at 10:49, Guest Mike said:

I had a Building Regs approved loft conversion in 2003, I don't remember the details but I am therefore assuming that all doors met the necessary FD requirements at the time - they were certainly fitted with self-closing mechanisms where necessary. These have been removed over the years as I'd heard anecdotally that they were no longer required. 

I found the mechanisms in my shed the other day - is it OK to throw them out?

Yes

[AnthonyB]

On 23/05/2022 at 19:57, Guest Martin said:

Just for clarification.

I am buying a 3 storey house from the year 2000. I understand that all habitable rooms have to have 44mm FD20 fire doors fitted.

1. Do they have to have intumescent fire seals fitted, as they haven't at the minute?

2. Do they have to be self closing? Currently all the doors are self closing but when I replace the new fire doors I would prefer that I don't have to fit the self closers again.

1 - No, they will have complied with the standards at the time of build. It was once practice to meet an FD20 door requirement using an FD30 blank with no strips when FD20 doors stopped being manufactured.
2 - No. The requirement was removed a long time ago

[Guest Liam]

Hi there,

We have recently moved into our 3 storey new build (2021) and have FD30 fire doors fitted throughout but we do not have intumescent strips.

We had a 'snagging company' carry out a survey and the first thing he picked up was that there are no seals fitted to any of the frames in the house. I have been into our neighbours homes (other 3 storey) and they all have seals fitted. Would there be a reason for ours not having them? Should they have them? I understand the document says FD20 but does an FD30 door with no seals de-classify to an FD20 spec? I have spoken to the manufacturer of the doors (Jeld-Wen) and they say the frames should have strips to give it an FD30 rating and without these strips, the doors are no longer FD30. 

 

Many thanks 

Liam 

[Neil ashdown]

https://buildingcontrolalliance.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/BCA-GN-9-Fire-Doors-in-Dwellins-1-Jan13.pdf 

https://www.jbkind.com/uploads/pdfs/JBK_Fact_Sheet_FD20_and_FD30.pdf