Guest Bhavna Posted September 12, 2015 Report Share Posted September 12, 2015 Hi, I was wondering if you could please help. We live in a block of flats, where our front door is a 30-minute fire door. Unfortunately, the door has been damaged, so I am trying to get some guidance on what I need to do to repair or replace the fire door. I’ve been told that only a certified fire door specialist can make a call on whether the door can be repaired or needs to be replaced, as any damage caused to a fire door can compromise its integrity. So, as a fire door specialist, I thought I’d seek some advice from yourselves. Please can you advise if we are able to repair the door? And if so, can the work be carried out by anyone or does it need to be a certified fire door specialist? And please also advise the fire safety regulations on this matter. Thanks for your help. Kind Regards, Bhavna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sutton Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) First I am not a fire door specialist and you would need to contact http://fdis.co.uk/. The fire regulations require you to have a adequate means of escape and the relevant guidance, require your front door to be a FD30s fire door. It would depend on the degree of damage but it is recommended that a certified fire door specialist should be used to decide if the door can be repaired or needs to be replaced, as any damage caused to a fire door can compromise its integrity. If you repair the door then I would suggest a certified fire door joiner be used but if a new fire door is required a competent joiner following the instruction accompanying the fire door should be satisfactory. Edited September 13, 2015 by Tom Sutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyB Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 What do you define as damage? It may be easier to replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 Can you advice on a suitable material to put into an internal timber fire door to fill the small cavity that has been created by removing the lock/latch (it is approximately a 30mm round hole about 80mm deep) I have about 30 of these doors to repair.RegardsAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sutton Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 I think the advice from Neil Ashdown in a previous submission would be suitable for you. Voids inside the door and frame construction would very likely result in early integrity failure of the doors in a fire situation. If you can identify the manufacturer of the fire doors by finding a label on the top or vertical edges of the door you can then contact their technical department for advice. If you are unable to identify the door manufacturer and any performance certification and you have the necessary competence then you may be able to repair the door and frame. You would need to be a competent joiner (assuming the doors are timber) to tightly splice hardwood of a density above 650 kg per m3 into the voids together with intumescent paper as a gasket material. The splicing must be tight in the mortice holes leaving no voids (however small) within the door and frame section. This is a job for a competent person and if you are at all unsure then you should seek professional help. In which case you could try the Fire Door Inspection Scheme at www.fdis.co.uk and info@fdis.co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil ashdown Posted October 24, 2015 Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 It is also worth taking into account that some fire doors need to have a latch or lock. They don't have fire performance test evidence 'unlatched' (unlatched means being held closed by the self-closer alone). If in doubt seek help from a Competent person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Garysommerf Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 I am looking to establish if there are any legal/regulatory or licencing requirements for contractors fitting or repairing fire doors. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sutton Posted January 15, 2016 Report Share Posted January 15, 2016 I am not aware of any legal/regulatory requirements or of any third party certificate systems for contractors fitting or repairing fire doors but I think there should be. I would contact the Fire Door Inspection Service they may be able to advise you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MikeWoo Posted July 6, 2016 Report Share Posted July 6, 2016 Hi I am trying to find what legislation dictates the periodic survey of existing fire doors. I am familiar with BSI 8214 but this is a code of practice and offers guidance. Could you identify the relevant legislation for me please? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sutton Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 There is no specific legislation dictates the periodic survey of existing fire doors other than The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (RR(FS)O) article 9 which require a FRA and it must be reviewed by the responsible person regularly so as to keep it up to date. During the review the RP or fire risk assessor would consider a survey of existing fire doors and any other fire safety matters. There is plenty of guidance on the maintenance of fire doors but not legislation that I am aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyB Posted July 7, 2016 Report Share Posted July 7, 2016 It's a common question - "Where in law it says we have to do X?" The answer is, that beyond carrying out a fire risk assessment and the specific provisions for fireman's switches, it doesn't. It merely sets out a range of broad functional provisions and how you achieve them is up to you and your FRA. However, you have to be able to demonstrate that what you do is adequate - to help you do this there are various benchmarks and guidance documents such as British Standards, official government and industry guidance documents, etc. You don't have to follow them to the letter (I don't always) but if you are going to deviate from them you need to be able to demonstrate that what you do still adequately meets the functional requirements of the legislation as oppose to following the guides/benchmarks (which I do) Defects in fire doors have killed in modern times and an adequate system of maintenance is key - the security guard or premises' managers 'check' on a fire door during the daily/weekly walkaround often misses aspects that are hazardous and a through examination (as in the BS) would pick up - so often 'checked' doors have damaged/missing seals and strips, not shutting flush in frame, sticking open, dropped hinges, damage affecting integrity, etc A good risk assessor will only tell you what you must do to meet functional standards and if that means putting your hand in your pocket, so be it. Admittedly there are some that don't really risk assess and require things for the sake of it or are far beyond what you need to do, hence the question "where does the law say...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Sutton Posted July 8, 2016 Report Share Posted July 8, 2016 It is also important that The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 (RR(FS)O) article 17 requires maintenance of any facilities, equipment and devices provided in respect of the premises under this Order. Although a periodic survey of existing fire doors is not specifically stated it could form part of an effective maintenance regime and as Anthony has eloquently explained it would go to meeting the functional requirements of the RR(FS)O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Del Posted July 30, 2020 Report Share Posted July 30, 2020 I have been asked to splice an FD 30 flamebreak fed which I find not right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil ashdown Posted July 31, 2020 Report Share Posted July 31, 2020 Falcon Panel Products are the importer of Flamebreak and have a very good technical dept. https://www.falconpp.co.uk/contact/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anthony Gibson Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Hi, looking at the above comments I don't see anything on what type of glue that you can use to fill an old mortice lock in an old fire door? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil ashdown Posted January 22, 2021 Report Share Posted January 22, 2021 When you say fill an old mortice lock, I am assuming either the lock is not required and you need to fill the mortice hole or that the mortice hole is too large for the lock and you need to fill the residual void or gap. I am also assuming the door is timber-based FD30 and that you cannot refer to the manufacturer for advice. If that is correct, then the hole should be tightly plugged with solid timber and any very small residual gaps filled with intumescent mastic. The edge of the door should be re-lipped with hardwood (density 640 kg per m3 or more) minimum 6mm thickness. The adhesive used for those repairs should be urea formaldehyde based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andy Posted February 21, 2021 Report Share Posted February 21, 2021 Hi I need to repair fire door FD30. The metal grill at the base of the door need to be removed and the breaches in the door should be sealed with materials providing a minimum 30mn fire-resistance. Which materials I need to looking for? Did I can just fill the hole with hard wood with intumescent mastic buttered around and face fit of stainless still sheet metal? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil ashdown Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 From what you say, it seems that somebody has made an aperture in the door leaf at some point? Are there any identification marks on the top edge or hanging edge of the door leaf? Whereabouts in the door leaf has the aperture been cut and how large is the aperture? Is it a flush door or a panel door and how thick is the door leaf at the point where the aperture has been cut? Photographs can be useful in cases such as these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike North Posted February 25, 2021 Report Share Posted February 25, 2021 Can you put an intumescent block in the hole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil ashdown Posted February 27, 2021 Report Share Posted February 27, 2021 I expect you mean an intumescent air transfer grille? These do not restrict the spread of cold-smoke, so only where the fire risk assessment allows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Reece M Posted June 12, 2022 Report Share Posted June 12, 2022 Can a 32mm Yale hole be plugged and filled, or change the door? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil ashdown Posted June 23, 2022 Report Share Posted June 23, 2022 refer to the topic here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madeleine Shirley Posted January 25 Report Share Posted January 25 Hello I have a flat door that requries some repairs, who can do this type of work as all the guidance states is a competant person. Can it be a general contactor? Maddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Ashdown MAFDI Posted January 29 Report Share Posted January 29 Hi Maddy, Find a person that has experience and can demonstrate competence relevant to the type of fire door you have. Ask for their credentials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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