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AnthonyB

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Everything posted by AnthonyB

  1. 0No - it's valid to want to avoid false alarm activations, but technology is such (& has been for some time) that fire alarm systems can have an investigation period with only a local alarm on a smoke detector activating, with the failsafes of a timer which will sound all alarms if the system isn't silenced after a set time, or if a second detector activates or if a call point activates. Just silencing and relying on a human is risky and depending on system type and configuration can stop other detectors and call points on the zone being investigated from being able to activate the alarm. Deaths and prosecutions have resulted from premature silencing of systems.
  2. Whatever non fire resisting cabling suits the situation. It's an urban myth EL cabling needs to be fire resistant (the one exception being for slave fittings off a central back up power source such as a central battery, inverter or generator) as should fire damage the cable it will failsafe onto it's internal battery unlike fire alarm devices which would just fail.
  3. They are using the obsolescent LACORS Fire Safety Guide which has this view. The guide is being rewritten at the moment and it will be interesting to see if this approach is retained. Bear in mind though that a new build house or flat in England with a protected stair or hall with only detection in the escape route (or best escape route, kitchen and living room) would only require internal FD30 doors (no smoke brush/fin) so the principle isn't just confined to the older HMO guidance.
  4. If you are trapped such that you are close enough to the building to only be in a relative place of safety as oppose to a place of ultimate safety then you will need onwards egress without the use of a key or code. Depending on the numbers and type of person needing to use the gate will determine if you need an EN 1125 panic exit device (push bar) or an EN 179 emergency exit device (push pad or lever handle). Usually you need a panic device if over 60 persons or persons not familiar with the premises (e.g. public) are using it.
  5. I'm afraid the last poster is out of date - arrows even for final exits became mandatory in all the exit signage standards many years ago with the BS/ISO signage. As you are passing straight on through the door the arrow should point upwards in accordance with the signage standards for use of arrows although a down arrow on an existing sign is unlikely to cause confusion so unless you want to be pedantic there is no need to rush to change them.
  6. The external walls and arguably the landing do come under the Order
  7. £200,000 / 64 is over £3000 per door. That's a lot of money to most people.
  8. Not for an existing legacy building - sound, well constructed and close-fitting conventional doors suffice under the current guidance (HOUSING – FIRE SAFETY Guidance on fire safety provisions for certain types of existing housing). The Fire Safety Order would primarily apply to this block in respect to the external walls only and regardless of the layout doesn't apply to the interior of dwellings
  9. A decent fire risk assessment would advise. The official Government Guidance (which if you follow is now proof of compliance following the strengthening of the legal status of the guides) Depending on the height and layout of the block the guidance allows the use of original doors (to a suitable minimum standard), original doors with modernisation (adding intumescent strips and cold smoke seals), or in some situations requires modern FD30S doorsets.
  10. AnthonyB

    scp

    Usually small places of assembly, due to the public presence, need at least a Category M fire alarm system of call points and sounders although if very small you could use the argument for small workplaces on one level where if a shout of fire can clearly be heard throughout that suffices. If the flats have the 60 minutes separation & separate access there would be no need for an alarm in the restaurant for their benefit either (unless it's a block with unsatisfactory cladding with a temporary evacuate policy)
  11. In theory yes if required, the travel into an adjoining compartment helps reset the travel distance clock as well similar to reaching a storey exit.
  12. I think this has already been answered elsewhere on this forum?
  13. A couple of q's: - Are they different fire compartments? - Are they part of the same occupancy?
  14. In which case yes to both as per paragraph 22.2(c) of BS5839-1:2017
  15. You are better asking at the forum at firealarmengineers.com (manuals are on here too) It will be a Morley ZXe panel, but as a Chubb badged version usually has a different engineer access code. Software is apparently old MS-DOS based Fire 3, 4 or 5 unless it's one that has had new firmware to Fire 6 The manual shows you can programme text, etc, from the front end in Level 3.
  16. Their main purpose is to provide smoke control, particularly on longer corridors, so they need to be suitably smoke sealing. Just because they are 40 years old doesn't in itself mean they are no good and can't be remediated - I work with several schools with large legacy estates and lots of doors (many of which in schools don't actually need to be fire doors) and if they had to automatically replace every door set in one fell swoop they'd go bust. A good FRA will detail which doors are a priority, which doors need to even be fire doors under schools fire safety guidance and a good fire door contractor will be able to remediate doors depending on the nature of the issues rather than take a pass/fail/whole new doorset required limited approach many who have entered the trade in the last few years are constrained to.
  17. Or put a new second final exit in the outer wall of the event space unit? Evacuating a public place of assembly through a workshop area is a non starter.
  18. What category is the system intended to meet?
  19. Are these cross corridor doors or enclosing stairs?
  20. As above - technically it doesn't meet British Standards recommendations but unless it is likely to cause confusion and delay prompt escape it would not be a breach of the legislation.
  21. No, not if it traps people and stops them exiting a building - it needs to have an escape fastening not requiring a key from the inside - the Safelincs website has a variety of options for sale.
  22. It should be a heat detector NOT a smoke (unless the solar gear is in a separate room or large cupboard in the garage where you could fit a smoke without cars setting it off) . Your garage ,if directly connected to the house, should have a fire door and fire resistant walls anyway so the difference in response time between a heat and a smoke shouldn't be critical
  23. If it's purpose built flats then it wouldn't need the alarm in the first place and if it did need a full evacuate strategy for some reason and thus an alarm system these would be wholly inadequate. As you would know BS5939-6 makes it clear that for Grade D systems there is no service requirement other than in sheltered housing or other systems where the detectors are linked to a telecare system, only monthly testing, so it doesn't need certifying for anything (in fact it should come out). It's worrying that the Fire Risk Assessment hasn't highlighted this.
  24. Fire safety: Approved Document B - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)
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