AnthonyB
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Posts posted by AnthonyB
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Depends on the size and layout of the premises. Small 1 or 2 room lock up shop/small office type premises can have torches (ideally those you plug in and automatically light up when the power fails, they aren't too expensive and will still cover you if there is a local lighting circuit failure as whilst they are plugged into the ring circuit the units invariably are also night lights so will light up due to the darkness).
Anything bigger and you may have to consider 'proper' emergency lighting.
Saying staff should walk around with a torch all day is plainly daft. Most phones have torches or can have free torch apps added anyway.
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Most of the big trade supplier's still refurbish CO2 extinguishers (the one I use does 500 a day) as there is a big enough cost saving to the trade to make it worth doing.
Some small independents also still have the kit.
Check Fire, PJ Fire and Jewel Saffire all still offer UK wide filling, testing and exchanging, saves around £6-8 a unit on a 2kg and a far more substantial sum on the 5kg.
All these also give a deposit value (credit and for some cash too) which if you don't need an exchange CO2 can be used against any of their other products.
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If retrofitting the preference is usually to fit to the frame rather than taking material out of the door.
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Also it wouldn't protect against ignition of nightwear, there are smoker's aprons for this risk.
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No objection under either or both stairs as long as you create a fire resistant cupboard of at least equal fire resistance to that of the stair (30 minutes in most cases,can be more though), that the stair (unless concrete or similar) is underdrawn to the same FR and that it has an FD30S door either self closing or kept locked shut (& signed as such). Depending on the required category of automatic detection for the premises you may need a smoke detector included too (off the buildings fire alarm system, not a self contained domestic unit)
There is a limit on including a reception in a stairwell - you need to have at least 2 stairs and only one can have the reception,the other has to be fire sterile.
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The panel you refer to is a hybrid conventional/addressable that is in essence a 2 wire conventional that can have it's devices addressed for identification but is still using conventional yes/no detection devices rather than addressable devices that are polled and report analogue values to the panel and has limited cause and effect beyond a verification setting for HMO use (like the rafiki/fike Checkpoint Plus), so you are looking at heat detectors (I'd suspect the Opto-heats still have a risk of triggering. You can isolate devices and zones, but this has to be done via the panel (unlike addressable systems where a key switch can be programmed to do this)
Fully addressable systems are often used where stage effects and smoke are present with a 'performance mode' C&E (often controlled by a key switch) that puts the auditorium multi-sensors into heat only mode during the event and then the system is switched back to normal (smoke or smoke/heat) for the rest of the time. The odd individual rouge fire officer aside this is usually accepted as the auditorium has more than enough people (including staff) to detect a fire promptly during performances. Similar setups can be used in clubs.
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Fire exit doors of any nature generally don't start to require outward opening until 60 or more people need to use them.
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I'm not going to answer as you need further training and experience. Which FPA course did you do? There is a specific one for residential FRAs as the standard commercial premises ones don't cover this type of premises.
All credit to you for doing recognised training, but sadly too many people think fire safety is a 'zero to hero' type job where you do a short course (or less!) and hey presto you can start doing FRAs for money in all sorts of premises- some of these assessors have ended up in jail by thinking like this as a result.
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As Tom says - BS9999 is not a risk assessment guide but an architect/designers alternative to approved document B and the occupancy calculations only work if the premises meet all the other aspects of the document, such as management level, structural protection, fire fighting facilities, etc, etc.
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It's quite clear in the Government Guidance:
"While fire drills and practice evacuations are used in many buildings to reinforce fire awareness training, it is neither practical nor necessary to carry them out in purpose built blocks of flats. Even in blocks with communal fire alarm systems, this is unrealistic.
In large sheltered housing schemes incorporating extensive communal amenities, such as hairdressers, cafeterias and shops, fire drills may be necessary. However, these will still only apply to people present in the common parts. Residents within their flats would not be expected to take part in fire drills"
They are unnecessarily intrusive and disruptive to people who are, at the end of the day, in their own private dwelling, not an institute and on the whole are either ignored or result in damage to fire alarm sounders to silence the racket.
Being private dwellings there is no responsibility on occupiers to log whether they are in or out and so it's impossible to know when to end the drill and timings as you can't be sure if everyone is out or not, most flat blocks are unstaffed with no one to coordinate evacuation . Also most blocks are stay put so no one should leave anyway (not that there should be sounders in the first place.)
It affords no benefit and is a waste of time and money. I've only ever tried it once and after leaving the alarm sounding for half an hour there was still no one leaving even though there were many flats occupied. The only result was two sounders smashed off the wall and several more bunged up with toilet roll.
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typo - Goods lifT
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Recent Guidance Act? Do you mean BS5266-1:2016? Do you mean upgrading escape route provision from the old 0.2 lux to 1 lux, which has been around for quite a few years now.
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Ignore the extinguisher company, they just want to sell extinguishers. I remove hundreds of unnecessary extinguishers from stairway annually - the stairs contain no risk, but the floors do for which you have sufficient.
If you have Water Mist there is no point in having the CO2 either. If your electrical cupboard has a Water Mist within 10m you don't need an additional extinguisher, also a 5kg CO2 would be overkill for a typical small office distribution room, either 2kg CO2 or for consistency you could stick a Water Mist outside.
The whole point of Water Mist is it's safe for direct use on electrical fires up to 1000V so you don't have to have additional CO2 extinguishers.
BS5306-8 is not law, it's just guidance and it's the fire risk assessment that makes the decision on requirements based on risk not prescriptive standards.
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It's not perfect but yes - is there any other way to empty the bins? If there is no goods life then it leaves the stairs.
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I assume it's yet another purpose built block with call points and sounders that weren't actually needed, the fire officer is correct and will be referring back to the current standards in Building Regulations and the Fire Safety guidance for Purpose Built flats.
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Sounds like it would make the stairs dangerous in any use, so the Health & Safety at Work etc Act 1974 and the The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 would have relevant application in addition to consideration of any fire safety breaches.
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1. Possibly as they are converted. You would need to check with your Local Authority to see if they operate an additional HMO Licensing Scheme that may require them licensing.
2. Common areas, although the Housing Act applies to the whole premises and an inspection for compliance with this may be in order.
3. The Fire Service or LA Housing EHO may give advice, but then again some may refer you back to your FRA. A competent risk assessor will be able to give clear detailed advice on the type of system required as part of an FRA.
4. Difficult to say (& one of the weaknesses of the legislation).There is no employer, so it falls down to either the landlord or a person having , to any extent, of the premises.
Richard Mackey's company does FRAs in London and may be able to help,tell him I gave you his details. http://www.completefireprotection.com/contact-us/42/
Too far away for me to help you sadly!
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Usually 500mm.
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The Fire Safety Order has provisions for this, but only with respect to ,employees. Traditionally, as fire legislation over the years has had limited provisions for individuals messing around with fire precaution features Article 8 of the Health & Safety at Work etc Act 1974 is cited:
8 Duty not to interfere with or misuse things provided pursuant to certain provisions.
No person shall intentionally or recklessly interfere with or misuse anything provided in the interests of health, safety or welfare in pursuance of any of the relevant statutory provisions.
This has the advantage of not limiting to employees. However, it's rarely used in practice and sometimes Criminal Damage has been used instead.
Very unlikely to get HSE or CPS authorising a charge where no real harm or expense was caused, exclusions and expulsions are more achievable for persistence offenders.
As an initial step, if not already done, you should fit hinged covers to your call points. More extreme (but not unheard of) solutions are altering the cause & effect of the system so that a single publicly located call point doesn't cause a full evacuation, only detectors or staff area call points;and moving to key operated call points in public areas.
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Depends on the scope of the FRA. If strictly for Fire Safety Order compliance then it's outside the scope of that legislation. If it was also for the purposes of the Housing Act then it may well be a necessary remedial action, but for the landlord, not the tenant.
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Technically it can be, it would breach Article 14 of the The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, which is Criminal Law, with fines and imprisonment as options on conviction.
Emergency routes and exits
14.—(1) Where necessary in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that routes to emergency exits from premises and the exits themselves are kept clear at all times.
Staff who place items in the way could be seen to breach Article 23 as well.
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No, regardless of whether it's stay put or full evacuate.
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Looks like a modified version of the stay put fire procedure example in the flats guide which sort of blows the exit width excuse for withdrawing the stair lift out of the water.
Actions in FRA's should be graded in levels of importance and it's common to give a suggested time frame too - this helps with budgets and prioritisation of works based on risk.
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Possibly if full evacuation, but as the premises appears to be built as stay put & doesn't have a suitable and sufficient fire detection and warning system for full evacuate it's irrelevant as you aren't going to have everyone leaving at any one time anyway and the numbers involved even so are negligible.
House to flats conversion
in Landlords
Posted
You will require planning permission, plans and Building Control approval. You should appoint a competent person to assist with this. Building Regulations are here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441669/BR_PDF_AD_B2_2013.pdf