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Everything posted by AnthonyB
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Remove wall in flat of victorian house
AnthonyB replied to exdirectory's topic in Fire Risk Assessments
Sounds like the design has been done in line with residential fire engineering calculations for open plan kitchens with the cooker at least 1.8m from the escape route. These calculations do assume that there is an LD1 alarm system (smoke/heat alarms in every room and hall other than toilets/bathrooms) and a residential sprinkler system, which I'm guessing you don't? Do the bedrooms have escape windows? It's not beyond possibility that the existing layout you inherited on purchase was itself unauthorised without building regs approval - it's not uncommon for previous owners to have knocked around internal layouts without going through the right processes. -
Broadly (as it can only be so as the legislation is functional, not specific and prescriptive) any final fire exit not in daily use as the main entrance that could be obstructed externally should be signed "Keep Clear - Fire Exit" using mandatory signage. 14.—(1) Where necessary in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that routes to emergency exits from premises and the exits themselves are kept clear at all times. (2) The following requirements must be complied with in respect of premises where necessary (whether due to the features of the premises, the activity carried on there, any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances) in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons— (g)emergency routes and exits must be indicated by signs;
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Remove wall in flat of victorian house
AnthonyB replied to exdirectory's topic in Fire Risk Assessments
Escape through open plan kitchen/diners is already an option in Building Regs guidance as long as: i. The travel distance from the flat entrance door to any point in any habitable room is a maximum of 9m. ii. Cooking facilities are remote from the main entrance door and do not impede the escape route from anywhere in the flat. How far is the cooker from the entrance lobby? -
A few bits of info needed: Do both buildings evacuate simultaneously? Do people regularly go between the buildings during the day?
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Shoddy job not being properly sealed at edges - if set up for simultaneous evacuation it would only need to be 30 minutes fire resistance at the most. If not installed correctly you could argue if may fail prematurely at the edges
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If it's a stay put block of flats you would need AOV. If you are a MO which operated simultaneous evacuation with a mixed fire alarm system you don't. ADB is not law or regulation, just one method of meeting Building Regs and other approaches are allowed as long as they meet the functional requirements of the law (suitable alarm and escape, compartmentation, internal & external fire spread, fire service facilities, etc)
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If the correct outdoor rated cable is used e.g. FP400 or armoured it shouldn't need further protection
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If it's just water & soil pipework and is fire stopped where required (e..g between floors) then it can be argued they don't need the same protection as the electrical cupboard.
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It's not an ideal set up and your point is very accurate, but without seeing the premises and their risk assessment it's difficult to say it's 100% wrong although it's possible.
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Linked balconies split by kick panels or doors are very 'old school' means of escape popular in large estates built in the 1960's. Current fire safety guidance addresses the situation this way "The provision of alternative exits via linking balconies, pass-doors between adjoining flats and break-out panels within the flat has featured in previous guidance and can be found in many existing blocks of flats. However, these arrangements are no longer recommended. Escape via linking balconies, or pass doors between neighbouring flats, was a commonly accepted alternative escape arrangement under previous benchmark standards and can be found in many existing blocks of flats. However, these arrangements are no longer recommended for the design of new flats. In most of these situations, the linking balcony, and pass doors, were shared by the residents of two adjoining flats. In some other situations, more than two flats shared the linking balcony but, in all cases, there was a need to gain access into a neighbour’s flat to reach an alternative exit route. The difficulties of ensuring access into, and exit from, an adjoining flat to reach an alternative exit are obvious and cannot be relied on with any degree of certainty to be available at all times. Despite the above, in many existing flats, the provision of other, more suitable alternative exit routes, such as common balconies or stairways, will be impractical to achieve. In these situations, either one of the other two approaches (limited travel distance or protected entrance hallway) should be adopted, or compensatory measures will need to be considered. The latter include: • pass doors between internal rooms to access a protected exit route • additional automatic detection to a Category LD2 [hallway, kitchen, principle habitable room] or even LD1 standard [all rooms in the flat other than toilets/bathrooms] • a sprinkler, or other suitable fixed automatic suppression, system. However, there may be circumstances where, even with these additional measures, the access to the linking balcony or the pass doors might still be retained for use as a last resort.
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Compartmentation survey by a specialist company - although some would be obvious and easy to check if the assessor actually tried to look.
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Insurance is nothing to do with legal compliance, which often sets a lower bar. An insurer needs to protect their premiums received from claims so as to stay in business and make a profit. As such insurers will set higher requirements in order to prevent, contain and supress fire - which will include suppression systems in kitchens. As they are the ones taking the risk they are entitled to set whatever criteria they wish regardless of minimum legal requirements (which don't require them as a matter of course). The UK is notorious for low standards in many fire safety areas - if you were in the US all your clients cooking food would have had to have had suppression systems to meet the minimum legal requirements there for over half a century. There are multiple manufacturers of suppressions systems in a variety of designs for different sized kitchens - they should shop around rather than just be quoted for 'Ansul' systems, which are the most well known.
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Approved document B 2022 / Training
AnthonyB replied to Matt 12345's topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
https://www.thefpa.co.uk/training/passive-fire-protection-training/understanding-fire-doors -
You really need a copy of BS7273-4 or an industry guide to it - too much to post here!
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Could the fire spread from the cupboard into the building and thus be a risk to people? If so no storage. If not then it's bad practice, may upset your insurers and could lead to further damage in the event of a fire but could arguably not be a breach of legislation. It's still preferable to keep it clear though.
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As you have found out. If your procedure for ensuring doors are unlocked from the out of hours fastenings falls short you will be breaking the legislation, whilst it works you are fine.
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1. Would the lock fail to safe and release the door if the cable is burnt through or otherwise affected by heat? If so, it doesn't have to fire resistant 2. No, this is the old method from the last century and is deprecated 3. You should have a copy of BS5839-1:2017 & BS 7273-4:2015+A1:2021 if doing this sort of work, these are the standards professionals should work to and are judged against in court - these would answer all your questions.
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Discounting an exit width when escape stairs have protected lobbies
AnthonyB replied to a topic in Evacuation Plans
No. Calculations for horizontal evacuation are separate from those for vertical. Stage 1- assess escape from the room Stage 2- assess escape from the floor Stage 3- assess escape from the building All seperate -
That's still a property dispute, the lease should determine the boundaries, and go from there.
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Yes, but it must be the correct type for the premises. BS EN 14604: 2005 & BS 5446-2 smoke and heat alarms for a BS5839-6 alarm system for dwellings only EN54 smoke & heat detectors, call points, sounders and control panels for a BS5839-1 system for buildings other than dwellings.
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Where the evacuation of a disabled person may slow evacuation such as to case a log jam, pushing, crushing, trips, etc it is accepted practice to refuge them in a temporary waiting space until the escape route is clear. This is however only usually applicable to buildings with stairs, not single storey halls. Fire safety in premises outside dwellings is dealt with by Business Fire Safety/Protection units within the fire service, any Community Fire Safety department isn't trained in this area hence not being able to instantly reply to you. Here is the current guidance: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-risk-assessment-means-of-escape-for-disabled-people
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No, your tenancy and the deeds to the property will determine ownership & control. Not a fire safety matter.
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Assuming in England or Wales: Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 Fire Safety Act 2021 Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 A fire risk assessment will be required for the common areas (including flat front doors and the external structure of the building) which will determine the general fire precautions required and point towards the appropriate evacuation policy. Specified fire safety information & procedures will have to be provided to residents. Depending on the height of the building various other explicit statutory requirements apply. Conversions can be tricky to correctly risk assess so care should be taken in choosing a risk assessor. Any flat that is rented out has it's own obligations for the landlord under the Housing Act and Smoke & Carbon Monoxide Alarm (England) Regulations.
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You could argue if the cupboard has a fire door fitted this protects the escape route from the electric meters and boxing in as well is unnecessary duplication. The boxing in is usually reserved for meters on corridors/hallways that aren't in a room.