Flats with no common areas

[Guest Uh I]

I live in a two storey block of flats (there are four flats in total in the block). Each flat has its own entrance and there are no common areas. What sort of fire safety assessment and documentation do we need?

[Tom Sutton]

None, with no common areas you are not subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.

[Jonny Roberts]

Does the new Fire Safety Act 2021 now require a fire risk assessment to be carried out of blocks of flats with no common areas? (i.e. the external walls, doors, windows and balconies need to be assessed).

Also, where a block of flats of this type is converted from a house (e.g. Victorian/Georgian terrace) not in accordance with modern Building Regulations, should there be a linked fire alarm system between the flats?   

[Tom Sutton]

A block of flats must have staircase's therefore must have common areas and it will depend on the fire strategy for the building and the type of fire alarm required or not according to the fire risk assessment. 

[AnthonyB]

Q1. Even if every flat has it's own entrance if deemed part of the same building then in theory based on how you read it yes, the FSA would apply - however as this would potentially pull in semi detached houses I think the guidance that is to be released may well clarify that it only applies to buildings with internal common parts as well.

Q2. Yes

[Jonny Roberts]

On 25/06/2021 at 11:43, Tom Sutton said:

A block of flats must have staircase's therefore must have common areas and it will depend on the fire strategy for the building and the type of fire alarm required or not according to the fire risk assessment. 

Thanks Tom.  However, the typical blocks of flats that come into this category are 2 or 3 storey houses converted into 2 flats, both with external entrances (often one at lower ground floor level, the other upper ground floor level).  So there are no communal staircases. 

[Jonny Roberts]

21 hours ago, AnthonyB said:

Q1. Even if every flat has it's own entrance if deemed part of the same building then in theory based on how you read it yes, the FSA would apply - however as this would potentially pull in semi detached houses I think the guidance that is to be released may well clarify that it only applies to buildings with internal common parts as well.

Q2. Yes

Thanks Anthony. Q1 - The revised FSO applies "Where a building contains two or more sets of domestic premises".  I would consider that a 3 storey period terraced house converted into 2 flats (both with their own external entrances - one at lower ground, one at upper ground level) would be included in this definition.  However, I would not consider a traditional pair of semi-detached houses as one building in the same sense.

It will be interesting to see what the guidance says about this.

[Guest Julie Pocock]

How do i make my UPVC door to be compliant with the half hour standard of fire resistance? do i have to buy a new door? OR adjust what i have? if so what with 

appreciate any advice please

thanks

[Tom Sutton]

Not possible you would need to buy a new fire door set.

[Guest Goldenbailer]

Q. Is the Leaseholder correct?

We live in a house converted in 1979 into 2 flats with no common parts. We are the new Freeholder (Nov 2021) living on the ground floor and the leaseholder lives on the first floor and uses original stairs. We have used fire resistant plasterboard around stair walls and in some ceilings as part of our renovation. Are we liable for anything further as Leaseholder insists 2005 Fire Regulations should be enforced in his flat which he purchased in 2016. 

Thanks in advance for advice.

[AnthonyB]

The 2005 Fire Safety Order explicitly excludes dwellings and only covers parts in common such as the external wall in your property. If they are an owner occupier fire safety is solely their problem.

As long as your renovation complied with Building Regulations (or if outside the scope of where approval is needed didn't make the original provisions worse) you are fine.

[Ali]

I live in a maisonette with my own front door and no communal area. However our building is an L shape and in the corner are 3 studio flats with communal area and stair case. All of us in the maisonettes are being asked to pay 108 for the fire assessment and health and safety assessment. I do not think I should be charged this and wondered if someone can answer this for me please

in the five years I have owned the flat this has never come up before. And we do not pay service charges 

help please 

 

[AnthonyB]

On 24/08/2022 at 20:32, Ali said:

I live in a maisonette with my own front door and no communal area. However our building is an L shape and in the corner are 3 studio flats with communal area and stair case. All of us in the maisonettes are being asked to pay 108 for the fire assessment and health and safety assessment. I do not think I should be charged this and wondered if someone can answer this for me please

in the five years I have owned the flat this has never come up before. And we do not pay service charges 

help please 

 

This isn't a fire safety matter, more one of property law for which you should consult a specialist lawyer. Are you leasehold or freehold?

[Guest Nicky Howe]

Can anyone please confirm fire risk assessment required on a converted house (2007) which is now 3 flats each with their own external front door. The ground floor flat has road access, the 2 upper flats have an external metal staircase (on an adjacent road) leading up to second flat with terrace area, then a further external metal staircase to top flat. They are all owner occupied with the freeholder in the middle flat. From what I have read only an assessment of any communal area is needed, which in this case is only the first metal staircase with both the upper flats share for access?

[AnthonyB]

Technically yes as more than two dwellings and the external fabric of the building has to be covered by an FRA even if no other areas in common, although it has been suggested simple house conversions into 2 flats are not required to meet this if no internal common areas in addition

[Guest Nicky Howe]

Can anyone please confirm fire risk assessment required on a converted house (2007) which is now 3 flats each with their own external front door. The ground floor flat has road access, the 2 upper flats have an external metal staircase (on an adjacent road) leading up to second flat with terrace area, then a further external metal staircase to top flat. They are all owner occupied with the freeholder in the middle flat. From what I have read only an assessment of any communal area is needed, which in this case is only the first metal staircase with both the upper flats share for access?

 

 

Thank you @AnthonyB

[Guest N16]

Hi there, 

I have a basement flat with own private entrance, no accessed via any communal or shared space.

 

There are 4 flats above which share a hallway to their flats. 

 

Will I need a Fire Risk Assessment for my flat, as I do not see it being relevant at all.

[AnthonyB]

No

[Guest Nicholas bell]

Sorry to jump on this thread but I am being told I need to change my front door to an fd30 on my leasehold property under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.  If not, what terminology can I quote back to the council. I appreciate any help given

[Guest Welsh Sam]

The Fire Safety Act 2021 rewrite Article 6(1)(a) of the fire safety order,

Where a building contains two or more sets of domestic premises, the
things to which this order applies include—
(a) the building’s structure and external walls and any common
parts;
(b) all doors between the domestic premises and common parts
(so far as not falling within sub-paragraph (a)).

The government fact sheet dated 24 Feb 2023 has the following text,

Fire risk assessments

A fire risk assessment is required by the Fire Safety Order to assess fire safety risks relevant to both workplaces and buildings with 2 or more sets of domestic premises.

The government fact sheet dated 24 Feb 2023 has the following text,

Residential buildings in scope of the Fire Safety Order

Any building with two or more domestic premises and with a shared common area (internal or external), falls within the scope of the Fire Safety Order.

There is some ambiguity here as the para. above re: buildings in scope and the text 'and with a shared common area'. The legislation requires a s&s FRA on a building containing two or more domestic premises - it does not say, and shared common areas. The s&s FRA may just require a detailed assessment of the external wall make up (appraisal) of these type of buildings without common areas. However, the fire safety order  requires an FRA of premises (ie. not just buildings) and the legal definition of premises is, the land and any buildings on it. Therefore, when undertaking the FRA of these premises without common areas is there also a requirement to assess any fire risk to the building from the land? For example, if a resident has constructed a timber storage shed in the grounds less than 2 metres from the structure.

[Guest Welsh Sam]

Sorry to jump on this thread but I am being told I need to change my front door to an fd30 on my leasehold property under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.  If not, what terminology can I quote back to the council. I appreciate any help given

The FRA for the premises has obviously identified that your front door is not a fire door and, as it is within 1.8 metres of the shared stair the Approved Document B now requires doors to be fire doors. However, Building Regulations (and associated guidance in ADB) are not intended to be retrospectively applied to buildings UNLESS, the FRA recognises the non-fire door as a significant risk that requires action.

[Guest Grade 2 listed flat FRA]

Hi, I am selling a Grade 2 Listed flat with its own front door which is part of a building of 3 other flats, all with their own front doors.

I am selling my flat and my purchases lawyer is saying I need a FRA even though there are no common parts and it’s a listed building which has its own set of rules.

should I need a FRA?

[Mike North]

Without looking at the building or some form of drawing I could not tell you, the listing part does not trump the RRO, the does however make it more difficult to comply

[AnthonyB]

Whilst it has no common areas if it could be classed as a single building containing two or more dwellings then it falls under the FSO requiring an FRA to consider the external wall fire risk.