Hi There,

I work in a building that was built approximately 20 years ago.  The existing fire doors have intumescent strips and close automatically, but I cannot see any CE marks on the hinges, which lead me to think they are not fire rated.  What are the legal requirements from the companies perspective? Do they need to upgrade all the hinges to comply with the law or as the doors are existing is this not needed until they are replaced?

So long as the hinges are made from steel, suitable to carry the weight of the door, securely fixed and in good condition then there's no legal requirement to replace them.

They might sometimes be marked BS7352 which was the standard before the current EN1935.

If the hinges are worn or damaged replace all three with CE marked fire rated hinges to minimum grade 11, use a good quality hinge as you may find some modern hinges will wear more quickly than others. If the current hinges have lasted twenty years it would be sensible to replace them, when necessary, with good quality hinges.

Just as a matter of interest, current building regulation requirements for hinges for fire doors can be found in paragraph C10 on page 151 of Approved Document B at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/832633/Approved_Document_B__fire_safety__volume_2_-_2019_edition.pdf

Hi guys, Sorry to raise an old thread but I have the saem question here in 2023. We occupie an old secondary school with old fire doors. they have briton 2003 closers on which we have been advise can be swapped out with these https://www.safelincs.co.uk/union-retrov-overhead-door-closer/

The hinges look original but the fire inspector we have insists that they need replacing as they have no markings (CE EN or kite mark) 

There are 3 hingen on each leaf and they appear to be solid steel in construction.

Any advice welcome 

Many thanks in advance

Dave

Building regulations in England does not specifically require hinges for fire doors to be EN, BS, CE or UKCA marked but to have a minimum melting point of 800 deg. C. See Appendix C at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124736/Approved_Document_B__fire_safety__volume_2_-_Buildings_other_than_dwellings__2019_edition_incorporating_2020_and_2022_amendments.pdf

Hi,

We, too, have taken on a building having fire doors, which are in good sound condition.  Each door has three stout brass-coloured hinges, which have no markings.  Should they be replaced to conform to latest regulations?

Secondly, there's a concealed chain closing mechanism in each of the fire doors.  If the fire door is held ajar by 15 degrees, and released, it doesn't close fully.  Should an additional closing mechanism be fitted?  Should the concealed chain mechanism be removed?

Thirdly, the building is 170 years old and the floors uneven.  How should we resolve the problem of the gap at the bottom of the door?

These issues are giving us a real headache, we're seeking a sensible way forward.  Thanks, in anticipation!

Terry

  

So clearly you have identified risks that the doors may not be adequate in resisting fire and smoke spread.  Therefore these need to be considered carefully and addressed appropriately. The performance required from those doors may very well depend on how the building is used. For example if there's sleeping accommodation then the risk could be high but if its an office the risk could be low.

For best effect prioritise your remedial works according to the risk to people at the building. All of the defects you describe can be resolved but some may be challenging. 

I have just passed the fire door inspectors course, It does state that hinge must be fire rated: with either  CE and UKCA marks, Certifire or similar certification, BS EN 1935 number, and fire rating.

I live in a development of low-rise apartments built in 2002.  The managing agents have recently had a fire door survey done and one of the recommendations/requirements is that the hinges to the front doors of the apartments should be replaced as they are not CE marked.  However the hinges are marked MONARCH EN 1935, with codes indicating that the hinges are suitable for fire doors of up to 60kg mass.  My reading of previous posts to this forum suggests no requirement in the regulations for these hinges to be replaced with CE marked ones.  Is this still correct, or have recent changes in the regulations altered the requirements?  

Assuming your hinges date back to 2002, then they pre-date the CE marking requirement.

Thank you very much for your reply. I will ask the managing agents to justify their requirement to retro-fit.

Hi, I live in a flat built in 2018. A recent fire door surveyor told us that our locks and peepholes do not comply as they are not intumescent. We have also been advised that the hinges do not comply as they are not kitemarked. Is there a legal obligation to replace any of this? Would these hinges pre-date the CE marking requirement?

 

Thanks!

2018 is very recent in terms of timber-based fire door Standards.  It may well be the case that the door manufacturer's fire performance certification requires that the hinges be UKCA or CE marked to the correct fire rating and durability rating in accordance with BS EN 1935: 2002. 

Similarly, the same door certification may require that the lock/latch-set has intumescent protection and the security viewer too.

Contact the fire door surveyor, they should be able to provide the product certification details for the door and the specification for the hinges and intumescent protection gaskets. 

Hi Neil, thanks for your reply!

I have actually been in touch with both the building constructors and the door manufacturers and was told the below:

"After the Grenfell disaster we had to carry out a legacy testing program, where we had to provide evidence that the door when tested bi-directionally would comply to the current standards which it did and all testing passed. The units passed tests without the need to add additional intumescent to the lock, spy hole etc. and we are still using the same hinge type although the current hinge is now CE marked, whereas that wasn’t a requirement in 2018"

So I'm guessing in this case the door still meets requirements and the fire door surveyor is just being over-cautious, and nothing actually needs replacing?

You need the manufacturers certification for the doors, this should have been included with the regulation 38 information and handed over with the building.

However, given the age of the building, I would ask the builder to remediate under the warranty.

Yes the door manufacturers have actually sent across the certification, which is helpful. Given that they have confirmed the door still meets current requirements though, the builders don't seem willing to fix the suggested issues, but to be honest I'm not sure they are legally obliged to? I'm just trying to get an understanding of what legally needs to be done (if anything) here, so that I can go back to the fire door surveyors if necessary with evidence of the certification and explain that actually nothing needs to be done? Thanks for your reply!

Becca, from what you say it seems the door is a composite flat entrance fire door?  You were wise to consult the door-set manufacturer and it would be good to keep the correspondence from them in case any issues or questions of any kind arise in future.

I live in a 3 storey apartment block, I noticed no fire stopping between floors in the electrical riser which I raised and this was rectified. I then noticed that the fire doors sounded hollow, there are no intumescent seals around the frame, no auto closing mechanism on these doors at every level and the hinges are not stamped but the building is 2004 built so pre-dates the requirement for marking. I assume there is a fire risk assessment every year,which I am not privy to, so how does this building pass the assessment with all these defects?

11 hours ago, Guest Iain K said:

I live in a 3 storey apartment block, I noticed no fire stopping between floors in the electrical riser which I raised and this was rectified. I then noticed that the fire doors sounded hollow, there are no intumescent seals around the frame, no auto closing mechanism on these doors at every level and the hinges are not stamped but the building is 2004 built so pre-dates the requirement for marking. I assume there is a fire risk assessment every year,which I am not privy to, so how does this building pass the assessment with all these defects?

It shouldn't if the assessment is any good - however the fact you aren't seeing the assessment may indicate it has. Under s156 of the Building Safety Act you have a legal right to be told of the risks in the building as part of the annual resident engagement requirement (evacuation procedure, importance of fire doors, name & UK address of the Responsible Person, etc) that applies to all buildings with 2 or more dwellings, not just high rises.

I work in a school and we have just had our annual fire door inspection. On the inspection they raised that our hinges are Grade 11 BS EN 1935 and should be Grade 13 BS EN 1935:2002. Can you advise if I need to replace every hinge within the school with the new grade and replace each time there is a new grade?

Grade 11 hinges are the minimum recommended for fire resisting doors. Therefore, your fire door inspector should be clear about the reason that they have recommended  Grade 13.

More info at: http://firecode.org.uk/Code_of_Practice_hardware_for_fire_and_escape_doors.pdf  see section 2 for hinges

Annie

BS 9999 recommends that a fire door inspection should be conducted every 6 months by a competent person 

3 hours ago, Neil Ashdown MAFDI said:

Grade 11 hinges are the minimum recommended for fire resisting doors. Therefore, your fire door inspector should be clear about the reason that they have recommended  Grade 13.

More info at: http://firecode.org.uk/Code_of_Practice_hardware_for_fire_and_escape_doors.pdf  see section 2 for hinges

Thank you so much for your help and advice Neil. Its really appreciated.

2 hours ago, Mike North said:

Annie

BS 9999 recommends that a fire door inspection should be conducted every 6 months by a competent person 

Many thanks for your help Mike. Much appreciated.

I need to replace some fire door hinges in my office. Do I need to have intumescent pads between hinge and frame? Nothing there at present. 

Intumescent gaskets are required only where the product data sheet for the fire door leaf requires them.