Fire Doors under debate

[johno12345]

Hi,

 

I work in a commercial environment, no sleeping occupants, no disabled, no high risk occupants.

 

I am also trained to complete fire risk assessments, but have only done them in my place of work, this was over 10 years ago, so im, perhaps, a bit foggy these days.

 

Right, so, we have a number of fire doors, mostly FD30S but some FD60S. I was always of the understanding that if they shut properly under their own power, stayed shut and weren't damaged, had intumescent strips, suitable sign, then they were ok to remain in service, no need to replace or query. they are all solid doors as expected, but fitted into existing  frames, as in, not a complete purchased door-set. 

 

Installed over many decades, repaired as required, I think they are all in good order, less than 5mm gap on them.

 

Now, someone has turned up and stated (loudly) that none of them comply, for various reasons, including gaps more than 2mm, not certified labels on them, not installed as a complete door-set, and so on. 

This includes the doors that were installed and passed through building control a couple of years ago. To replace them all would cost somewhere in the region of £100k

 

I'm looking for some guidance that my original thoughts are still valid. I also recall that automatic fire detection can negate the need for fire doors, and we have, indeed, fitted additional automatic detection as part of routine upgrades to the building. 

 

Any advice is appreciated.

 

Thanks 

 

 

[Neil ashdown]

Fire doors and escape doors are fire safety devices and assuming you are in England or Wales the requirements of Article 17 of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 must be met http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1541/article/17/made

If your fire doors are in good order, as you say they are, then its reasonable to expect they comply with the legal requirements.

With regard to perimeter gaps, these should be between 2mm and 4mm.

With regard to fire door-set (rather than fire door assembly) and certification labels, these are not legal requirements.

On the subject of fire safety, I would recommend that you seek advice only from 'suitably competent persons'. 

[AnthonyB]

AFD cannot completely replace passive fire protection including fire doors. In the environment you describe if the doors met the standard of the time and are still in good order, coupled with the other fire protection enhancements, then there may be an argument not to modernise, but you will still need fire doors of some description

[johno12345]

is it a legitimate repair to plant a hardwood timber on the edge of a fire door to make it fit better? 

 

do 1 hour doors still require the 1" rebate too?

 

The questions are arising from a new building that has been constructed, rather than the old parts

 

I do think that we have lots of fire doors that dont need to be fire doors, as people like to put badges on them over the years for some reason

[Neil ashdown]

Generally yes, OK to add hardwood lipping but not added to the existing lipping. Cut off the existing lipping and replace with a thicker one. Hardwood lipping should be minimum 6mm thick and maximum 18mm thick.

Generally, the door frame rebate stop should be 12mm or more and intumescent fire seals are necessary. 

Updating your fire risk assessment will help in identifying which doors need to be fire doors.

[johno12345]

thanks, its actually better than I thought. 

 

I probably could do with a refresher, I do have the qualification Nebosh fire safety & Risk management, but when its only used once a year in a familiar building, its easy to lose the skills. 

 

Fire compartmentation is an area i need to brush up on

 

Thanks 

[Neil ashdown]

Google the term 'Fire Door Training' to find suitable courses.