Hello

I share the freehold in a property converted into 3 flats.  We want to upgrade our electricity cupboard which houses the units and meters for each flat.  Is it sufficient that the cupboard be constructed to 30 min fire resistance or does it have to be metal?  I ask because someone mentioned new Wiring Regs.

Thank you

The cupboard can use any suitable materials for 30 minutes. Supalux silicate boarding would be preferable to plasterboard as you can use thinner, lighter sheets.

The new wiring regulations are not retrospective and require new consumer units and similar to be fire resistant (which are usually metal)

 

I've been asked to upgrade a meter cupboard in a building with three converted flats.  The existing cupboard is in the G F Hall and is made of melamine boards (carcass & doors - the doors have kitchen cupboard type hinges).  I can upgrade the carcass with Supalux, but what about the doors & hinges?  Will I need to replace these and plant a frame on the front with proper fire doors and intumescent strips, etc?  I'd appreciate some advice before carrying out the work.

If you want it to have any appreciable fire resistance, yes. There's no point upgrading the rest of the cupboard when the doors and hinges will still fail after a few minutes.

I have done a great deals of research and there is little guidance on this matter the best I found was www.thebuildinginspector.org/HMO%20Fire%20guide.pdf check out page 37.

Most of the guidance simple says upgrade to carcass on the risk side (inner) and fit a FD30s door with steel single axis hinges and what you propose should achieve that. Because it says FD30s door that would mean intumescent and smoke seals are required also the door should be fitted with a lock. You can buy self-adhesive seals which could be more practical and finally check with the enforcing authority (most probably the BCO or AI) that your proposals are acceptable.

 

 

Thanks to both Tom & Anthony - for your helpful replies.  Going away to speak to the owners now.

Hi

ive got a contradicting question,can anybody help answer it please,

my consumer unit is in a cubourd at roof level at the minute with no door on,if I fit a door,do l need to put ventilation through the door for coolance ? 

Or ,no ventilation,to prevent oxygen feeding a potential fire

thanks for your advice

nigel

Your consumer unit does not need to be cooled, if it developes a fault and starts to overheat the RCB will operate and cut off your supply. Placing a consumer unit in a fire resistance compartment is to protect the area it is located in, not the unit itself, if it was located in a escape route you may be unable to escape from fire if the area was filled with smoke and fire.

It appears that electrical intake cupboards should provided with

60 minutes fire resistance and be fitted with FD30s lockable doors.

Bruce Batten

Fire project surveyor

Depends on the type of building, what country you are in and what guidance you follow. Plenty of 30 min cupboards out there which are fine. There is often a difference between requirements for the design of a new building and those for existing ones built to legacy codes.

Please help, I have purchased a top floor apartment and after found out there was only electricity to the apartment and no meter. The fuse was housed outside the front door in a wooden case without hinges or locks. Subsequently I had a meter fitted and now the landlord of the block is saying there should be a fire proof cabinet built around the meter at a cost of over £400. On this floor is only mine and 1 other apartment plus a smoke vent in the roof which can be opened. Can I just keep the original box or build another one form 12.5mm board?

If all the distribution boards and meters are new and compliant with current wiring regulations they should all be made of non combustible housing material and not need further protection. If not then they would need the required fire resistant enclosure, which could be a traditional plasterboard and stud enclosure or a purpose made electrical board enclosure https://envirograf.com/product/electrical-consumer-unit-and-distribution-board-fire-protection-system/

AnthonyB , brilliant! Really helpful. Spent quite a while looking for a product like this. Was think I would have to resort to getting it made. Thanks for posting such a helpful post!!!!

 

Hi there.

I have an electrical riser cupboard (with BWF FD30S door on every floor) in a 3 storey (2005) purpose built block of flats that is not lined on the internal side. So you can see the timber studwork on the inside. Am I correct in thinking that it needs fire boarding on the internal side?

Thanks in advance

A full height riser needs needs a minimum full half hour standard separation internal and external so I think you are correct.

Off to survey a job with someone tomorrow and am having trouble getting an idea of exactly what is required to conform with fire regs. It's similar to the above post with regards the electrical riser but this is on every floor of a six storey block of flats. Currently the just have doors with asbestos (I know) which are being professionally removed. The originally just wanted new 30min fire doors (pair on each) but I've a feeling the frames wont be up to it but cannot find regulation thickness for frames or stops. Getting varied opinions and comments but everything seems to be up in the air since Grenfell. Nobody involved seems to be taking the point of fire safety or regulations seriously and only seem to be concerned with the aesthetics. As I will be the one making them I am keen they are made to spec or at least I've raised the point and it's been ignored, even if it is just to cover my own back. The notices and hardware etc have all been covered but the thickness of the frame (I'm reading 32mm in some places and 38mm in others) and door stop (some say 25mmx25mm, some 25mmx38mm....some even saying it can be 12mmx 25mm now as strip does the job). Ideally any direction to an info sheet with the spec on would be greatly appreciated.

You should replacing the doors with fire door sets which are the fire door and frame which has been manufactured according to the specifications of the ones that have been tested. Check out what is meant by fire door sets https://www.safelincs.co.uk/fd30-single-fire-door-sets/.

I'm personally having to make each pair bespoke as the apertures vary on each unit. Am cutting each pair of doors from a solid oversized fire door blank but mainly want some information on dimensions of frame requirements. Tomorrow I'll be starting construction of a frame 38mm thick and 73mm deep with stops 22mm thick by 28mm deep as a sample set which pending approval of the contract will mean something will need to be submitted to building control for approval. From the information I have been able to muster online so far I'm hoping this will be adequate but would like to be able to confirm this before submitting a drawing, better still before the sample is made as would ideally like to build this to spec.

When you purchased the fire door blank you should a got a global assessment that gives all the information to construct a fire door set. Check out this global assessment for the indicated fire door blank. https://www.falconpp.co.uk/media/1640/flamebreakfd30revm.pdf

Very useful and informative. Thank you.

Hi,

We have a block of flats where the electrical cupboards are within a communal area and have to be up-graded to meet FD30 fire rating following a  Fire Risk assessment. Am I right that we can internally line the insides of the cupboards with boards such as Supalux and this would suffice, or do we need to clad the outside as well. 

Also, there are varying door sizes as all different compartments for the electrics within, thus we would have to either have small bespoke FD3O doors manufactured (struggling to find). Alternatively can we cut down blank FD30 fire rated doors as suggested in the feed above reading the documentation and ensure lipping is added correctly.

Much appreciate any advise on this.

Many thanks.

The traditional approach of upgrading doors by lining as in the first paragraph only requires boarding on the risk side, in your case the inner face.

Other methods are available using intumescent paints and papers (Envirograf) but you should seek the advice of an accredited fire door manufacturer/installer.

Advise please from anyone who can help.  I have a meter cupboard outside my business.  It is a brick outhouse building with 2 large wooden doors.  It has the meter inside for an adjoining unit and they gain access without asking permission to go onto my property and often leave the doors open.  Now they are complaining that there are a few empty plastic containers in there and say it is a fire hazzard.  These containers are empty, no flammable liquid was in them and access in and out of the cupboard is not restricted.  So, can I store my containers in my cupboard?  

 

Could the fire spread from the cupboard into the building and thus be a risk to people? If so no storage. If not then it's bad practice, may upset your insurers and could lead to further damage in the event of a fire but could arguably not be a breach of legislation. It's still preferable to keep it clear though.

Thanks for sharing your expertise here.  Can I please check I've got this right - same situation as above, communal area in a converted house.  We had a new consumer box installed last year, it's a Fusebox with the casing made from galvanised steel. My understanding is the new consumer unit means we don't now need fire proof doors, is that correct?

If we do though require the fire proofing still, for a floor to ceiling cupboard in a standard space, do you happen to know an est cost for fire doors (if needed)?  It looks like Supalux Board 2440mm x 1220mm x 9mm is only £250 plus seals and hinges, or an I over simplifying?  Our landlord (the Council) has provided a quote of £6,800.  It's a 2 flat converted Victorian, seems excessive to say the least.

Big thanks