Lift in protected shaft - existing block of flats

[DanHenry]

Hello,

I understand that lifts should be in protected shafts. So in a four storey block of existing flats, there is a protected stair and the flats are accessed from a protected corridor. The lift is accessed from the protected corridor, adjacent flat entrances on all levels. I take it this is unacceptable or am I missing something?

 

Thanks, 

[Tom Sutton]

What is the problem if the lift is in a protected shaft?

[DanHenry]

On 07/10/2022 at 20:12, Tom Sutton said:

What is the problem if the lift is in a protected shaft?

Hi Tom,

 

Sorry for the delay. So a standard passenger lift can go from protected sleeping corridor on one floor to another protected sleeping corridor on another floor. Surely a fire on on floor could now pass to another floor via the shaft?

I thought lifts had to open into lobbies which would in effect created a protected shaft?

[AnthonyB]

Usually you's see it, but it's not always been the case. Even now fire lifts can open into the corridor as long as they are within 7.5m of the stair door

The shaft will generally always be protected in relation to the walls, often being brick & block, the vulnerability being the doors , which whilst some will give 30 minutes fire resistance are poor at stopping smoke. In some buildings in the past it was common to fit a self closing fire door in front of the lift opening to overcome this, particularly with concertina and open lift car doors, but it's less common in flats as they weren't covered by fire safety legislation until 2005

[DanHenry]

12 hours ago, AnthonyB said:

Usually you's see it, but it's not always been the case. Even now fire lifts can open into the corridor as long as they are within 7.5m of the stair door

The shaft will generally always be protected in relation to the walls, often being brick & block, the vulnerability being the doors , which whilst some will give 30 minutes fire resistance are poor at stopping smoke. In some buildings in the past it was common to fit a self closing fire door in front of the lift opening to overcome this, particularly with concertina and open lift car doors, but it's less common in flats as they weren't covered by fire safety legislation until 2005

Thanks for this. 

 

Seems crazy, as any other shaft penetrating sleeping compartment floors you would expect to see fully protected. 

I visited a large hotel the other day and the lift (non- firefighting) started at reception level and stopped on the sleeping corridors of all upper floors. Adjacent to all the bedrooms, no lobby protection. This is accepted?

 

[Tom Sutton]

As I have said the lift is in a 30 min protected shaft so how will the fire pass from floor to floor, I do accept the smoke problem but modern lift seems to have solve that one.

[Guest Fire & Security Experts]

Thanks Tom, that’s helpful.

I understand that the lift shaft itself is generally a protected enclosure (typically 30 minutes, masonry construction), so direct fire spread from floor to floor via the shaft shouldn’t occur. My uncertainty was more about comparing lift shafts with other vertical penetrations through sleeping accommodation, where we’d normally expect some form of lobby or additional separation at each level.

I accept that historically, and even under current guidance, passenger lifts can open directly onto protected corridors in flats and hotels, provided those corridors meet the definition of a protected route. As you’ve said, the greater vulnerability is smoke rather than flame spread, and it seems modern lift design is relied upon to manage that risk to an acceptable level.

It’s helpful to understand that this is largely accepted practice, even if it feels counter-intuitive when thinking purely in terms of compartmentation.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.