AnthonyB
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Posts posted by AnthonyB
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Only if he wants one. There would however have to be a fire risk assessment of the common areas, which may require the provision of a fire detection and alarm system based upon the fire resistance of the premises after conversion - sometimes these conversions require a mixed system with provision to each flat and a common system.
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Maintained means just that, although you do see some that are wired so that the bulb only lights on full mains failure or the switching on of the local non emergency lighting.
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External final exits don't always have to have self closers.
Internal doors may if protecting escape or enclosing an area of high risk (the doors need to be the appropriate grade of fire door as well, it's not just fitting closers!)
Not all doors may need this, a decent FRA will specify which and should specify why (so you shouldn't need to be asking the question!)
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I would suggest that you use the services of a competent external risk assessor, schools tend to be in varying conditions of compliance and upgrade works can be prohibitively expensive.
You need a decent FRA provider who can split requirements into 'nice to do (but not mandatory)' and 'need to do' and who can help prioritise the works so as to spread the cost.
We have schools experience and would be happy to help further - PM me for more information.
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You are both an employer and person having control under the above legislation and have to carry out a fire risk assessment, provide general fire precautions were necessary and have a system of maintenance for them as well as provide adequate fire safety training and procedures.
It's not up to the Leisure Centre to dictate the extinguishers, you decide in your FRA. For example a CO2 extinguisher alone would not cover all risks present requiring an additional standard water or foam extinguisher and you may prefer Water Mist or the maintenance free P50 Foam extinguisher both of which cover all risks in one unit (the latter whilst expensive doesn't require you to pay a service firm to come in every year whereas normal extinguishers do). You could use ABC powder but it is not generally suitable for indoor use (I would certainly advise against it)
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Usually common area provisions are the responsibility of the landlord/management company. They do require a scheme of maintenance, usually 6 monthly servicing of fire alarms, monthly & annual testing of emergency lighting.
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You need a friendly Approved Inspector for the Building Regs approval, that way non compliant projects with no suitable alternative provisions can get the OK. Sadly increasing numbers of student builds and conversions are being passed despite being non compliant, it will only come out in the wash when it all goes wrong.
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With self testing systems all we look for for compliance is monthly inspection of the testing lights to identify faulted units - you can't record a traditional annual drain as often the fittings test at different times.
Whilst the lack of a common lighting circuit is a problem, your set up would still work on local circuit failure as per the BS so should suffice.
If you install the fittings off the tenant's lighting circuit as per the BS it shouldn't be turned off for any length of time and your monthly check would reveal a unit with no power.
Long term vacant flats could be an issue as stated.
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What Mr.T said, a risk based approach is common sense. Having said that many Housing Associations insist on a "completely clear" policy as having anything stored (even if no risk) encourages people to store other riskier items and it's far easier to manage a 'nothing at all' policy than a risk based 'yes/no' policy.
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There is such a thing as third party accredited passive fire protection specialists who can carry out fire door improvements, they are usually accredited by schemes such as FIRAS, etc.
Checkmate Fire
Airfire Controls
Gunfire (Gunite)
Fire Protection Compliance
are all accredited contractors & can certify works.
General joiners can be competent and can do the work sometimes, however their is a fair amount of substandard work out there from them.
And they should fit the strips to the frame, not the door leaf if at all possible, routing the door leaf is a last resort.
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If on the other hand it is a commercial premises and the system doesn't serve shared space and only your demise then under the terms of your lease & by virtue of your control of the workplace as an employer it will be your responsibility to maintain.
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Hi, I own a building which was built as a house but has been used for offices for many years. I obtained planning permission to change the use back to a dwelling house. The building has the feel of a house and the alterations required are minimal but I do have to reinstate a partition wall in the ground floor hallway which is at the bottom of stairs that lead to the upper parts. There are three upper floors with a fire escape on the top floor. The partition will separate the ground floor lounge from the hallway and stairs.
I envisage a reinstated partition on the ground floor, with double glazed doors which open onto the lounge and i want to give the impression of openness and light as soon as one enters the building through the front door and the truth is I would like to have the double doors left open, if compatible with regulations.
My questions are:
Is it compulsory to have door closer mechanisms on the new double doors in the new partition wall?
Can they be glazed doors?
Do the doors have to be fire rated?
Do I have to get a building regs official to check out the doors once installed?
Many thanks for your help on this.
This sounds very much like 'building works' for the purposes of the Building Regulations and so there should be a plans submission to Building Control.
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What voltages are involved? Some water spray & foam extinguishers can safely be used directly onto electrical fires of up to 1000V as well as accidental contact up to 35,000V.
CO2 is probably most appropriate although you need to consider:
a) Who is going to be able to use the extinguisher and is trained to do so?
b)How are the occupiers going to know there is a fire and be able to access it quickly enough for a first aid attack?
Some fire types and locations are such that suitable alarm, compartmentation & escape are more appropriate with fire brigade intervention especially in domestic premises
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The Council are incorrect to require service paperwork from BS5839-1 as it applies to commercial premises systems and BS58839-6 Grade A systems.
Your premises have a grade D system for which the only maintenance is weekly testing & periodic cleaning of detectors in accordance with manufacturer's instructions.
Also BS5839-1:2013 (the current standard) contains neither an appendix G9 (Just appendix G with one item, a model fire log book) nor a FSM3 form!
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A small single room building with two exits wouldn't need much. No automatic detection as any fire would be readily detected by the occupier, no electrical manual alarm as a verbal alarm would be heard sufficiently. Suitable extinguishers (see below *). The exit not in normal use should be signed & have a simple fastening not requiring a key (although if travel distances from one end to the other are 18m or less accounting for furniture a second exit isn't required). Emergency lighting should be considered although hand lamps could suffice.
Suitable risk reduction measures such as servicing of heating equipment, PAT testing, fixed wire testing, not overloading sockets, allowing space around heaters and heat producing electrical equipment would be important too.
* Your main risks are electrical & solids. Usually this requires a water spray or foam extinguisher for the solids, CO2 for the electrical, but to reduce the number of extinguishers needed you could use electrically rated wet extinguishers such as the Water Mist or any Britannia Fire water/foam spray extinguisher (including the service free P50) to cover both. Traditionally ABC Powder extinguishers were used for multipurpose cover, but the damage they cause and the potential harm to people in the vicinity is such they are frowned upon these days.
If you are part of a larger building or are split into rooms it's more complex.
You must carry out a Fire Risk Assessment, however if the employer with control of the premises has less than 5 employees and does not require a license to trade it need not be recorded (written) although it's still recommended
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If the accommodation (which presumably is staff accommodation that comes with the job) is within the club building and not separate is highly likely that a fire detection & alarm system will be required, although there are limited circumstances (that should be determined by Fire Risk Assessment) that could preclude it. Many pubs with accommodation for the manager or licensee have faced enforcement action for lack of adequate fire detection & warning systems and/or insufficient structural protection of the means of escape. Whilst parts of the premises may be considered not covered by the Fire Safety Order, they would be affected by those parts that do and so contain relevant persons who must be protected.
The lack of even a rudimentary manual fire alarm system (call points and sounders only) is suggestive that the premises are very small - if they are not you have to consider if a fire warning could be adequately given manually - would someone shouting fire be clearly heard instantly through all parts of the premises?
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None of the above would be effective on cooking oil, only the foam & powder would suit the actual wood burner, but powder isn't really suitable indoors.
Water Mist or Wet Chemical would suit all possible risks in the area.
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It's a typical cover, most have a slot to allow a tamper seal to be used:
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You need a decent risk assessor to physically look at it (unless you are that person asking for opinions!). Is it a purpose built care home or a conversion (for example from an old large house with/without extensions)?
Most conversions and some older purpose built premises struggled to meet contemporary fire safety standards let alone current ones - whilst in use they had to do the best they could, but as this has closed down if it is unsuitable I can understand the reluctance to permit it's reuse for the same occupancy group.
Was the FRS visit under the Fire Safety Order or as part of consultation under Building Regulations?
I would put your query on the Firenet Forum as there are a lot of specialists on there who can offer opinion - http://www.crisis-response.com/forum/index.php
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A further point worth raising is I see many situations were illuminated signs are not required, a standard sign with an emergency escape light close by, illuminating the sign is all that is needed. Maintained illuminated signs are only required in situation where the normal lighting is extinguisher during the normal use of the room like theatres, cinemas, clubs, entertainment venues and lecture theatres etc.
A lot of that is down to BCO's and specifiers again....
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Very little individual actions are in themselves law - the regulations set out the broad fire safety aims, how they are achieved can vary meaning sometimes a particular item is essential to comply with the law yet in other circumstances merely recommended - hence the Fire Risk Assessment.
So there is no sentence in law saying "you shall have a zone plan", but by not having them you may be in breach of the broad aims - your emergency plan could be affected if you don't have them and the lack of zone plans was one of the contributory factors in the multi fatality Rosepark Care Home fire in 2004.
Not much point having a zoned fire alarm without them.
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What sort of premises is it?
The current trend in several types of premises is to withdraw hose reels from service and replace with extinguishers (in fact in the majority of premises there are already enough extinguishers in place to negate the need for the reels!)
A competent fire risk assessor can justify this and then you can use the take the reels out of service and use the supply for other purposes.
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What do you define as damage? It may be easier to replace it.
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If it's part of a block of flats, ground floor or not, the front door to the communal areas must be a fire door - I urge you to follow Tom's links.
If you research properly there is an increasing range of aesthetic designs of door that meet FD30 standard available - it doesn't have to be a 'institutional' looking plain leaf
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Yep, no additional Manual Call Point needed