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Em. Lighting installed, even though no Legal Requirement


bob2813
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Hi,

What is the position for the RP, where a qualified FRA states their is no requirement for Em. Lighting (conventional/borrowed light adequate), but the RP has still gone ahead and fitted them.

Lacors also states no requirement.

2x 3 bed HMOs less than 2 storeys each.

Does the RP still need a competent person to provide commissioning certificates, and then ongoing annual test certificates (a periodic inspection and test cert. has though been provided).
The Em. lights have been tested under BS7671 certificates.

What are the differences between a Emergency Lighting Completion Certificate and a Periodic Inspection and Test Certificate.

Thanks


 

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If it's there it should be subject to a suitable system of maintenance - forget the law, think of the civil liability if it fails when needed and someone has an accident.

Commissioning is to prove the installation complies with BS5266 and would form part of the fire safety information that should accompany the building through it's life, but it wouldn't be a breach of fire safety legislation if the certificate is missing (but makes it easier to demonstrate the installation is suitable & sufficient)

 Periodic Inspection and Test Certificate relates to the recommended paperwork to be issued  after the annual discharge test of the system.

BS5266 is the appropriate standard for design, installation & ongoing maintenance, BS7671 is the general electrical wiring regulations, I would guess a general electrician is doing the work if they are using IEE Regs model paperwork as oppose to the specific paperwork.

I'd agree it isn't required (although doesn't do any harm) at the moment, although LACORS is under review (since 2019 so seems to be stuck in 'development hell')
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you for the reply.

when needed
The FRA has written that it is not needed, ie no requirement.

I'd agree it isn't required (although doesn't do any harm)

If there was no Emergency Lighting, the FRA has assessed that in the event of a Fire everyone can get out of the building Safely, having it installed is simply extra to requirements, so the lack of it would not be an infringment of those requirements.

Can any one point me to where its states - that even if not required by law, where emergency lighting has been installed, over and above what is legally required, it still needs to be certified (commissioning and periodic certificates).

Thank you for clarifying the differences between the Certificates.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Fire legislation states:

Maintenance

17.—(1) Where necessary in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons the responsible person must ensure that the premises and any facilities, equipment and devices provided in respect of the premises under this Order or, subject to paragraph (6), under any other enactment, including any enactment repealed or revoked by this Order, are subject to a suitable system of maintenance and are maintained in an efficient state, in efficient working order and in good repair.

If it's argued the EL isn't necessary you could argue the maintenance requirement isn't. However that's only Fire Safety Criminal Law  - there may be a civil liability if it doesn't work, the borrowed light is poor and someone has an accident - they could use it as the grounds of a claim (which may not succeed, but would have to be defended) 

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Thank you.

Yes I have read that Part of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Order), but my reading of it is that maintenance is only required where the equipment is provided for by Law, my FRA assessment has written that it is not required, and the assessor considers the borrowed light to be sufficient.

If I put an Emergency Bulkhead in my bedroom for fun (or infact in an understairs cupboard - to illuminate the Consumer Unit,in case of a power outage as I have done), or in an Escape route at my behest - (ie not required to be fitted by any Law) - then Section 17 cannot apply ??

If by Law it is not required, then the only sort of commissioning certification that would be required would be covered under BS7671 certificates.

In my mind it just doesn't seem clear that Fire Regulation Laws apply to these particular lights, yes they maybe covered by other Laws, ie Electrical Installation ... but that certification is covered.

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Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

I have professional indemnity insurance, including Public Liability, Negligence and Civil Liability, so providing I have complied with the Law those perils should be covered., and a call just now to my insurer confirms this.

I can't see Insurers requiring anything above what the Law requires.

So my orginal question - does certification and maintenance still need to be carried out ? if not required by Law.



 

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