https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/making-your-small-block-of-flats-safe-from-fire

gives a measured approach. If the only thing wrong with a doorset is it doesn't have a certiifcation plug or sticker then it's not always proportionate or necessary to replace.

 

Interesting thread this one, I have a large converted house with no internal communal parts. Converted pre-1991.

Client is saying because there are no internal communal areas it's outside the scope of the FSO. 

I am sure it is not. The external wall and compartmentation are just two areas to consider. The latter may lead down a linked fire alarm path too. 

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Am I misguided? 

Thanks

 

An interesting thread .I live in the ground floor of a converted victorian house. I do not share communal areas with the other flats (there are three). There is an external fire escape which they all have access to. I'm told that a fire assessment is needed for the communal areas. Is this true given the fire escape, and if it is necessary will I have to be involved in it?

10 hours ago, Guest Owner said:

An interesting thread .I live in the ground floor of a converted victorian house. I do not share communal areas with the other flats (there are three). There is an external fire escape which they all have access to. I'm told that a fire assessment is needed for the communal areas. Is this true given the fire escape, and if it is necessary will I have to be involved in it?

Yes - any building containing 2 or more dwellings, even if there are no internal common areas, requires a written fire risk assessment as even with no internal areas the external structure is common

I own a flat and share of freehold for a converted Victorian house (we believe 1960's conversion) with 4 flats in the main building.
The common area includes a hallway with door to flat 1 (fireproof door) and flight of stairs to landing and fireproof door to flat 2, the stairs and landing to flat 3 and 4 (both fireproof too). 
Each flat has an interlinked wireless system with heat alarm in kitchen and an alarm linked which sits immediately outside the flat in the communal landing. 

We have just had FRA done and they have recommended a class A fire system and emergency lights on each floor. 
In communal areas there are fire escape signs indicating direction out (only one way in and out). There is also fire safety signs in each flat as well as fire blankets and extinguishers.

Is this necessary to put in a class A fire system? 

How many floors?

The appropriate guidance is here http://www.cieh.org/library/Knowledge/Housing/National_fire_safety_guidance_08.pdf

Hi all,

I have a dilemma that I'd appreciate some help with. I'm in the process of purchasing a flat situated within a four-storey property. There are three flats in total.

During the processing purchase, my mortgage provider requested a FRA. This was undertaken and identified some high risks. These include installing a Grade A fire alarm system.

1) Because the communal area is located only on the ground floor, would a Grade D(1) suffice? If this is the case, do I need to ask the assessor to amend the FRA?

2) The flat is a share of freehold, with two other freeholders. The current owner is refusing to pay for any of the fire safety costs, and also implying she may pull out of the sale and return to letting out the flat, which she was doing previously. My understanding is that now she has conducted the FRA, even if she pulls out of the sale, she would be liable under legislation to respond to the FRA? Is this the case - I assume it can't just be ignored.

3) In addition, I assume that the building insurance would likely be affected by the FRA and potentially voided if these findings aren't acted on?

Any advice on any of the above points would be very welcome.

 

 

If the flats each have suitable fire separation then there is no need for a common alarm of any type where the communal space is a small ground floor lobby (the block can 'stay put'). I've assisted in a case with a similar set up to yours where the freeholder wanted to install a smoke alarm and emergency light for a ground floor lobby which also necessitated getting the Distribution Network Operator to put in a new supply as there was (understandably) no existing communal electricity supply. The leaseholder cost implications were horrendous, however as the flats had suitable separation then none of this was required.

If there is a serious concern with fire separation then a common system would be needed but it would have to extend into each flat to support a full evacuation policy. Such a system can be Grade D (domestic mains alarms with battery back up) in a building of up to two storeys, above that is Grade A (commercial grade fire alarm) - it's based on storeys not whether they are common or not.

Their duties under the Fire Safety Order don't go away - they have to implement the findings and if they intend to both ignore their responsibilities and let one of the flats then this would be a matter for the fire service in respect of the common issues and the local authority in respect of the rental property.

The FRA of course could be wrong in which case it needs rewriting, but there is also every chance it's spot on - I can't be sure from a computer keyboard!

Hello, 

 

I'm currently trying to sell my flat in a Victorian conversion (converted in the 70s). Main entrances leads to small hallway with one flat on the ground floor. One set of stairs and two flat with entrances on the second floor landing. We have two non-mains powered smoke alarms (not interconnected) in the landing in each floor and two fire extinguishers (one in each floor, not wall mounted). We had an FRA done which recommended the following: 

- Mains powered interconnected smoke + heat alarms (so 4 in total). 

- Mounting the fire extinguishers.

- Fire escape plan (there is only one way out) 

- No smoking signs

- Fire safe box for the meters located by the main door (I believe they are MDF, not sure if they are fire safe). 

Which of these is actually necessary? 

Potentially all of it (except the extinguishers which should be removed). The guidance used for the FRA is still mostly current (superseded by the removal of extinguishers & newer editions of some of the referenced standards.

The alarm system should be a smoke alarm to each shared landing plus heat alarms inside each flat hallway that opens into the common area, all interlinked.

The Fire Safety (England) Regulations and the amended Fire Safety Order require all buildings with 2 or more dwellings to provide the following to residents:
• any risks identified in the fire risk assessment and what fire safety measures have been enacted to address this 
• The Responsible Persons' name and UK address, the identity of anyone who assisted with doing or reviewing the fire risk assessment, as well as the identity of anyone who
has been appointed to implement firefighting measures
• how to report a fire to their local fire and rescue service
• information on how to understand the ‘evacuation’ strategy, and the action to take should they discover a fire in their own flat or in the common areas
• being made aware of the importance of maintaining their flat entrance doors and their self-closing devices where appropriate including that they should not tamper with  them. That fire doors should be kept shut when not in use and that any faults or damage to the door should be reported immediately.

The same regulations also require the following notice to be displayed:
A fire action notice, providing information on the action to take in the event of a fire, should be prominently sited in the building’s communal areas such as the building’s
lobby or any other clearly visible part of the building.
The notice should provide information on the ‘evacuate’ strategy applicable to this block.
Specific information should be provided on the following:
• action that a resident must take if fire breaks out in their flat
• action to take on seeing, or becoming aware of, a fire in another flat or another part of the block
• the route to take in order to evacuate the building (evacuation plan)
• how to report a fire to the fire and rescue authority

 

Hi,

i am selling my ground floor flat in a converted 1030's house.  I have an exit onto the street (driveway).  i do not share any communal areas with the other 2 flats. they share a staircase.

Do i need an FRA?  the clients solicitor is requesting one.

On 03/02/2026 at 16:43, Guest Rae said:

Hi,

i am selling my ground floor flat in a converted 1030's house.  I have an exit onto the street (driveway).  i do not share any communal areas with the other 2 flats. they share a staircase.

Do i need an FRA?  the clients solicitor is requesting one.

You don't just for your flat as it is a private dwelling not subject to the law. However, as the building overall contains 2 or more dwellings then it does require an FRA of areas in common (including external walls & flat front doors where they open to internal common areas or an external deck approach)

Hi,

I own a three bed flat on the top three floors of a Victorian terraced house conversion, the rest of the building comprises a single flat of two storeys. There is a shared hallway with doors to each of the two flats. We have a recent FRA of the common parts, and are compliant with current regs (Grade A, FD30s with closers etc.). However my flat, which is rented to three unrelated sharers, has now been classified as an HMO by the local authority. Do I need to get a further FRA for the interior of my flat?

Thanks in advance

Usually yes, covering the common parts of the HMO- see for practical guidance https://www.cieh.org/media/1244/guidance-on-fire-safety-provisions-for-certain-types-of-existing-housing.pdf

Hi, I own the leasehold of the Ground and First Floor flat in a Victorian conversion and the freehold of the whole building. The Lower Ground Floor leasehold is owned by the council and occupied by their tenant, all flats are about 60sqm only.

I let the First Floor flat and live in the Ground Floor one myself. My GF and FF flats share the main entrance door on the GF level, leading onto a 1.5x1 meter communal landing from which the two flat doors go off. The LG flat has its own entrance at the LG level but its electricity meter is located in the mains electricity cabinet located on the external wall of that communal landing together with ours.

The last time something was changed and approved by building control was in 2008, when we renovated our GF flat and exchanged our and the main entrance door, the conversions must have been done in the 60s.

The council owned the freehold until we bought it from them a few years ago and they inspected the communal area for fire risk and never altered anything during that time.

I just had an FRA done as we are now in charge of that and was shocked to find the suggestions to put in a Grade A alarm, 3 fire doors and a fire door for the electricity meter cabinet, various signage and exit plans, emergency lighting etc. for a place, where it is totally obvious where to exit and where the concerned communal square footage is just 1.5sqm. This seems way over the top.

I am fine with putting in a mains powered smoke detector grade D in that hallway, for example, but the rest seems very excessive and unnecessary to me, in particular the fire door requirement, possibly they have just pasted the standrard requirements for larger premises and ignored exceptions for such a layout.

Could you clarify to me please whether or in what regard I really must implement the findings of the FRA and where I can just treat them as recommendations or unnecessary, whether such a layout can and should be treated differently and where and how not, or how I can challenge those extreme suggestions? Thank you!

No, if it's the same Council I'm thinking of they lost a First Tier Tribunal over it, get your own one done after all that area isn't legally under their control to assess it's yours to manage.
Th situation I dealt with was identical and other than a bit of remedial work to the front doors off the shared lobby nothing more was required as the three flats had the right fire resistance in accordance with current Government FRA standards and the tiny lobby required absolutely nothing at all. The situation in this case was worsened as being just a hallways there was no communal electricity supply for all this and thus there was a further 4- 5 figures worth of work proposed  to get the Electricity Distribution Network Operator to put in a new supply and meter for 'communal' services (the alarm & EL).

There is a slight chance this is all needed but unlikely (after all if there were issues they should have addressed them when they owned the whole site and were responsible for paying)

Hello, I am currently selling my one bed flat in a three flat converted 1920s semi. One communnal stairway with the middle and top flat doors leading onto the same small landing at the top of these stairs. The conversion took place in 1989 and we carried out a FRA in 2015.

The 2015 FRA stated that there was 'Suitable fire separation compartments within the building to prevent spread between rooms and floors'. It went on to state that there was 'no requirement for detection and warning system in the communal areas'.

I have been asked for an updated FRA from my buyer's solicitor so have just had one done. I realise 2015 is a while ago for a FRA but absolutely nothing has changed to the building since then and we have continued to manage the risk according to this FRA. The new FRA is now recommending 'that a competent fire alarm contractor undertakes a fire alarm design assessment to determine the appropriate category of automatic fire detection for the communal areas, taking into account the building layout, evacuation strategy and the recommendations of LACORS and BS 5839-1. Any system installed should be designed, installed, commissioned and maintained in accordance with the relevant British Standard.'

I and my fellow freeholders self manage our building through a share of freehold, and obviously want to make sure we are compliant, but would like to know why this has been assessed so differently and whether or not a full alarm system is completely necessary now if it wasn't before? Thank you.

Your new FRA appears to be applying LACORS which is not intended for well separated purpose built or properly converted flats.

What does the FRA say about compartmentation of the building?  If it is silent, then there is no issue and an alarm is not required

Go back to the assessor and ask

1.      Which compartment has triggered the recommendation?

2.      Which part of LACORS do they believe applies to a 3‑flat conversion with confirmed separation?

3.      Why is BS 5839‑1 being referenced when no alarm is required under a stay‑put strategy?

4.      What has changed since the 2015 FRA?

What Mike said. It's absolutely not the case that every conversion requires a fire alarm and evacuation and every purpose built is stay put with no alarm, the FRA should reflect the conditions on site and not arbitrarily determine requirements based on age alone.

Sometimes lack of smoke control can have an impact, but your description implies the common stair is only G & 1 floor, which current guidance allows no provision in very small blocks. If your compartmentation is also fine, then stay put and no alarm is likely to be fine.

The phrasing of the action sounds familiar - was the FRA by a company that's name includes Noah's biblical mode of transport?