Tom Sutton
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Posts posted by Tom Sutton
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Ryan I agree with what you say, but what about those thousands of fire doors that are not certified fire door sets which I term nominal fire doors its just another item to assess when deciding if the fire door will meet the required standard.
If it needs to be replaced, then I would insist on a certified fire door set to replace it.
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It all depends on the fire risk assessment, what does it say about the fire alarm and what category should be installed. The final decision is up to the Responsible Person whether or not to accept it but from what you say it sounds that is should be upgraded and I cannot see the enforcing authority accepting it neither.
If the RP accepts the situation you should make your opinion very clear to to the RP, preferably in writing.
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It is The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, that primarily controls fire safety in England and Wales check out http://www.firesafe....ety-order-2005/ for more information.
It is the Responsible Person as defined by article 3 of the above order has the duty to implement the order also other person having control can have duties as well.
The Fire and Rescue Service has the duty to enforce the order and conducts spot checks to ensure if the order is being complied with.
The Department of Communities and Local Government oversees the legislation and provides guidance.
The order also uses persons defined as Competent Person to fulfil a role and this includes fire consultants/assessors. In the near future legislation will be introduced defining Competent Person even now a fire risk assessor is residing at her majesty’s pleasure. Check out http://www.absoluteh...safety-offences
Competent Person is regarded as competent if they have 'sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to properly assist the employer to meet his safety obligations.
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When a premises is unoccupied you can secure it to any degree you wish, fire doors only need to be available without resorting to the need for a key when occupied. Even when the premises is occupied you can provide certain security to fire doors check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/security-and-fire-safety/ .
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Hi Chris
I think what you are talking about is the battery for self contained emergency lighting unit. Yes they do have to be replaced and I found one supplier who stated " Sealed Nickel cadmium cells with a life of at least 4years and comply with EIC standards." I have heard 5yrs mentioned and I would assume there is a test to establish if the needs replacing but I do not know what it is. You should contact a supplier of these batteries or sparks who has experience in this field.
Tom
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A resident landlord can have two lodgers/renters living with them and not be a HMO.
Schedule 14 of the Act exempts from the definition of HMO an owner-occupier and his/her family, who are living with one or two lodgers, as follows:
Buildings not HMO's (excluding Part 1)
Schedule 14, 6,1c no more than such number of other persons as is specified for the purposes of this paragraph in regulations made by the appropriate national authority.”
The regulations by the appropriate national authority is Statutory Instrument 373/2006, whereby section 6(2) of the above SI states, The number of persons specified for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)c of Schedule 14 to the Act is two.
So if there are three or more lodgers in addition to the landlord and his/her family, the property will be defined as an HMO.
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There will be thousands of fire doors out there that hasn't been tested to BS 476 part 22 not even part 8 and there will be many claiming to meet the required standards, that do not.
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Whether the flat is freehold or leasehold is of no relevance, it only has a bearing on who the responsible person may be and not what regulations of standards may apply.
Whether the flat is freehold or leasehold does have relevance when deciding if a premises is a HMO. check out Housing Act 254 1c / 254 4a / 257 2b / 257 4a
In article 3 I do not see where freehold or leasehold has any relevance.
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Corridors and circulation areas are usually escape routes and therefore the surfaces of walls, ceilings require a surface spread of flame of class "O". Anything introduced into the corridor should meet a class "O" surface spread of flame but in certain situations class 1 may be acceptable. Consequently corridors should be sterile with no flammable materials present, but some enforcement officers will accept a limited number of displays in glass fronted cabinets and treated objects.
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BS EN 50172:2004/ BS 5266-8:2004 states,
Regular servicing is essential. The occupier/owner of the premises shall appoint a competent person to supervise servicing of the system. This person shall be given sufficient authority to ensure the carrying out of any work necessary to maintain the system in correct operation.
One definition of competent is,
A competent person is someone who has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities that allow them to assist you properly. The level of competence required will depend on the complexity of the situation and the particular help you need.
It doesn't say he has to be qualified, it says he has to be competent you will have to decide if he is competent.
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Are talking about domestic smoke detectors combined with an emergency light?
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There is no date at this moment, just soon and they have been saying that for some time. First Europe has to accept ISO 7010 and then amend (EC/92/58). Then the UK has to implement the directive and amended the Health and Safety (Safety Signs and Signals) Regulations.
Check out http://www.firesafe....ire-exit-signs/ for more detailed information.
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Naz The government thinks you can but allow me to inject some caution here, it is nowhere as simple as some think. I know many professional fire risk assessors spend too much time on sorting out garbage fire risk assessments that fail to pass the enforcement officers. I do accept for small and small/medium premises it is possible for the man in the street can do an acceptable FRA but do be careful.
Check out http://www.firesafe.org.uk/fire-risk-assessment/ for more information.
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First check out the footnote on my responses.
Nobody can give a definitive answer to you question it is all about informed guessing.
1. One of the most important considerations is how well the fire door set has been installed and meets all the required tolerances.
2. Fire door can fail because it warps and creates a gap between the frame and the door. ( Construction and Hinges)
3. If if the door does warp slightly is there a means of sealing the gap. (intumescent strip)
4. Fire attacks the edge of the door first and high lights any faults. (Hardwood lippings and intumescent strip)
5. If the fire door is modified it loses certification grantee unless conducted by an approved company.
The only way to check these points is by examination and with favourable responses you should be able to make a good case to convince the Building Control Officer or Fire Inspecting Officer the fire door will function as required.
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Have you modified the frame as well so the door sits in a 12 mm rebate also have you maintained the 2 or 3 mm gap between the door and frame
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I have only seen overhead self closing devices on the office side of inward opening fire doors I am not sure if it is possible to fit on the corridor side. In a fire its only role is to close the door when the last person has left then the latch ensures the door is kept shut and its function is finished which is long before any fire gets near the door, so I am not sure what your concerns are.
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Ken download the guide for small and medium places of assembly for guidance on question 1 relating to Décor and surface finishes of walls, ceilings and escape routes. Page 118.
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Thanks Harry
Makes sense but as I have already said I would always use an active (electrochemical) detector and supplement it with a visual CO detector if it started playing up. During research I came up with a couple of websites one English and the other an American which discussed this subject in some depth which proved interesting. One suggested you should go for a digital version if you can afford it, because it will detect lower levels of CO well before it reaches danger levels as a result I will certainly consider this.
http://www.explainth...edetectors.html
http://communities.g...ing/pdf/1324663
Tom
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Hi Harry
Why was the removal of the CO badges recommended? I fully understand the need for active CO detectors but why not use visual CO detectors as a backup? Also is there any independent reports on this subject using UK's main CO alarm manufacturer reviewed the badges which would be a competitor for his products leaves me a little suspicious.
Tom
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Further to what has been said, active CO detection, because of the electronics can have faults that sound an alarm without the presence of CO and results in a situation like yours. A possible solution could be to have a passive CO detector, sometimes called a badge as well, which will show the presence of CO and hopefully give you peace of mind.
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The electronics and batteries can be tested using the test button however there is no way of testing the CO detector and it has a life of only ten years. If you are having problems, then I would suggest you replace it its the safest option.
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Service intervals for dry powder (other than the CO2 cylinder) should be taken as,
The Basic Service - Standard powder 12 Months from the the date of commisioning or the last service.
Extended Service - Standard powder - 5 years from the date of commissioning or 6 years from the date of manufacture and subsequently every 5 years from the date of the last extended service.
Extended Service - Powder primary sealed - 10 years from the date of commisioning or 11 years from the date of manufacture and subsequently every 10 years from the date of the last extended service.
The service tolerance accepted is + or - one month so in your case I would use the commissioning date.
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Most of the ones I have seen there is only a test button and indicator lights. These are to inform you the battery state and when the alarm is working, but I would suspect the high pitched signal you are hearing would be a clue it is operating. You could do the testing, maintenance and simple instruct your mother when the alarm operates go and get help.
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Your friend is absolutely correct, any form of combustion using carbon products, produces carbon monoxide (CO) and carbon dioxide (CO2)when the carbon in the fuel combines with oxygen, (C+O) or (C+O+O). It all depends on the supply of oxygen and how efficiently the carbon combines with the oxygen also how efficiently the products of combustion is removed that's why in modern houses you need vents fitting and effective chimneys. In days of yore you had gales blowing through the gaps in doors and windows and had chimneys little boys could climb up, so vents were never needed.
Fire safety risk from children's picture
in Passive Fire Protection
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I think the guide for your premises is Sleeping accommodation and on page 123 class "O" and Class 1 is explained, but as I have said corridors should be sterile with no flammable materials present, but some enforcement officers will accept a limited number of displays in glass fronted cabinets/frames and treated objects. What does you Fire risk assessment say on this matter?
The width of the corridor is mostly irrelevant you should keep the fire loading as low as possible.
With regards to the substitution for glass have you considered polycarbonate sheet instead of perspex its more stable with regards to fire. Perspex does evolve toxic fumes when involved in fire but so does most materials its all a matter of degree.