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Most blocks of flats only require the single exit route via the front door so it's a moot point - if not required it need not lead to a place of ultimate safety and should have no exit signage

There should be external emergency lighting to indicate the route from leaving the building to a place of safety. An exit for small numbers as in your situation would be 900mm if wheelchair accessible, 800mm otherwise. Legally there must be a written Fire Risk Assessment for the block and also legally all residents must be provided with details of the fire risks and protective measures present as well as the evacuation policy, etc so this in theory should already have been considered....

It all depends on the size of the enclosed area and the risk. If the area is big enough you can call it a place of ultimate safety, but technically it should allow for the restricted dispersal of people

Hi not sure if this is a daft question. I have completed visits at various premises that have enclosed areas outside that exits lead to. I have had offices and small shops and always said that evacuation should involve your main final exit to open air and ultimate safety, with the option if required to move further to say a pedestrian path. In the case of enclosed areas to the rear of a premises that if you can not reach the front final exit or if you are already in an enclosed area, you would not be expected to re enter the building and you are in a place of relative safety, and aslong as you are the building height away you are safe and this is acceptable. But with schools and care homes adviced that the enclosed area should have an alternative means of escape as smoke from the building an direction of wind could effect the people in this area, with vulnerable people and the number of young persons. my question is flats with private or communal gardens. Do these enclosed areas need to be provided with means to escape from these areas. I have tried to put this into context with houses that have enclosed gardens that have no alternative and often back onto other houses gardens. Or is single private dwellings different. cant find an answer lots of forums seems to gain varying responses.

I live in a four storey flat. We have a back stair outdoor fire escape, with a locked in gate which opens out to an access patio/paved area of about 12 by 12 Feet which leads to a road. The management committee have decided to put low level plant planters across this area approximately 28 inches apart to block cars from using the space for loading, but the height of the planters makes it dangerous for elderly or low vision residents as they could trip over the planters if light fails. Is there a minimum distance that the planters should be apart to make sure in event of an evacuation they would not obstruct people as they might not see them in an emergency situation ...and they could obstruct fire equipment getting access to the stairway. Who should we contact to find out about this?

If the activity or premises are licensed (any Entertainment Licensing not just alcohol) it is mandatory as the FRA occupancy calculation replaces the mandatory limit previously imposed by the licensing authority. It should also be deemed mandatory unless a competent person has calculated and can justify a different capacity as overloading premises or having insufficient means of escape would be offences where it was a risk to safety. Your temporary exit system would usually be fine as long as it wasn't signed as an exit when not in use and was signed when it was.

These are good as they are more than quick 'zero to hero' course that only teach about brand new doors rather than holistic courses on existing & older spec fire doors https://www.firedoorscomplete.com/training-qualification

LACORS is notorious for overlooking this common situation. If the commercial unit is not adequately separated from the flats then you would end up following the 3 storey guides anyway as you'd need a Grade A mixed system covering both uses anyway. The way the guide is phrased 3 stories is 3 stories but if the commercial is separate I can see the desire to take a sympathetic approach with a Grade D mixed system as the other fire precaution requirements are virtually identical if you don't use the escape windows option (which you wouldn't have at this height anyway). Your choice at the end of the day - take the safe route and apply three stories guidance, or risk assess and justify the 2 storey approach (& be willing to defend it in case of any external scrutiny)

Potentially all of it (except the extinguishers which should be removed). The guidance used for the FRA is still mostly current (superseded by the removal of extinguishers & newer editions of some of the referenced standards. The alarm system should be a smoke alarm to each shared landing plus heat alarms inside each flat hallway that opens into the common area, all interlinked. The Fire Safety (England) Regulations and the amended Fire Safety Order require all buildings with 2 or more dwellings to provide the following to residents: • any risks identified in the fire risk assessment and what fire safety measures have been enacted to address this • The Responsible Persons' name and UK address, the identity of anyone who assisted with doing or reviewing the fire risk assessment, as well as the identity of anyone who has been appointed to implement firefighting measures • how to report a fire to their local fire and rescue service • information on how to understand the ‘evacuation’ strategy, and the action to take should they discover a fire in their own flat or in the common areas • being made aware of the importance of maintaining their flat entrance doors and their self-closing devices where appropriate including that they should not tamper with them. That fire doors should be kept shut when not in use and that any faults or damage to the door should be reported immediately. The same regulations also require the following notice to be displayed: A fire action notice, providing information on the action to take in the event of a fire, should be prominently sited in the building’s communal areas such as the building’s lobby or any other clearly visible part of the building. The notice should provide information on the ‘evacuate’ strategy applicable to this block. Specific information should be provided on the following: • action that a resident must take if fire breaks out in their flat • action to take on seeing, or becoming aware of, a fire in another flat or another part of the block • the route to take in order to evacuate the building (evacuation plan) • how to report a fire to the fire and rescue authority

Samual Heath at https://concealeddoorclosers.com/powermatic-r100-concealed-door-closer/ New Star at https://www.new-star.co.uk/products/agb-eclipse-self-concealed-hinge-with-door-closer?_pos=1&_psq=self-closer&_ss=e&_v=1.0 Contact them and the door manufacturer to check suitability for your type of door, fire rating and end use.

Could do with some advise please, about to be made redundant at the end of the year, I do have basic knowledge of building work and fire doors. Which is the best course to do that is recognised by employers for fire door assessments. Thanks

Did you ever find out about these chain closers the reason I ask is I don't want the standard top of door closer in a residential setting for adults with complex needs due to the risk of them using this as a point for suspending themselves for suicide any advice appreciated

We've been running events in our church for many number of years with a stated max capacity of 450 (which is admittedly very full). However most events and services have well under 200. Only a few very popular services around Christmas and some external hirer events exceed 250. We've recently had an FRA which has recommended a max capacity of 260 for evacuation purposes. By opening up an external door in our choir vestry the number has been increased to 309. A couple of questions. 1. Are we obliged to restrict numbers in the church based on the FRA given that we feel it may be safe and reasonable to allow larger numbers with other measures in place? 2. We would like to keep our vestry locked and only open it up as a fire exit when numbers exceed 260. Is it possible to have a temporary fire exit in this way?

Hi All, Just looking for some clarification if possible please.... It is an existing building - 3 floor levels. Ground is commercial - 1st and 2nd floor levels are residential flats. Using guidance of LACoRS, do we use the examples of a 3-storey building or a 2-storey building as only two floors are residential?? Sorry - I know this is probably a really stupid question, but there is quite a difference in terms of what is required between 2 and 3 storey buildings. Any help/guidance much appreciated.

Something doesn't add up from what you say - without seeing the premises it's difficult to say - an external photo shot to give an idea of age, type and construction would help (you can paste photos into replies as well as attach them). If it is indeed purpose built as maisonettes and not converted then, whilst there are some circumstances where linked systems are required (& usually temporarily until the issue requiring them is resolved) they are very rare compared to conversions or true HMO's A building of self contained flats can be legally a HMO if it is converted rather than purpose built, does not meet building regulations and is at least 2/3 rental occupancy, but again it doesn't sound the case. First Tier Tribunals to overturn incorrect fire safety requirements and charges are not uncommon but I'd need more info before determining if the requirements are reasonable or not.

Hello, I'm currently trying to sell my flat in a Victorian conversion (converted in the 70s). Main entrances leads to small hallway with one flat on the ground floor. One set of stairs and two flat with entrances on the second floor landing. We have two non-mains powered smoke alarms (not interconnected) in the landing in each floor and two fire extinguishers (one in each floor, not wall mounted). We had an FRA done which recommended the following: - Mains powered interconnected smoke + heat alarms (so 4 in total). - Mounting the fire extinguishers. - Fire escape plan (there is only one way out) - No smoking signs - Fire safe box for the meters located by the main door (I believe they are MDF, not sure if they are fire safe). Which of these is actually necessary?

We have had heat detectors put inside our doorways and something in the vestibule as only 2 masionettes, they said we had to have a signal, since then they have installed more alarms in massionettes across the road in another building and it caused our to go off, our fra stated converted building but it was purpose built, medium risk and considered a hmo, I had lfb do safety check before I saw the FRA and they said itwas low risk and not a hmo, housing association not interested, said they are folowig the FRA and that's it. How do you chalenge this sort of thing and charging 13. 72a week service charges for this.

Thanks very much for your help.

Thank you for your advice and reply.

It depends if they have been tested for the external application or not and who will certify the completed system. Certain products will only be sold to suitable installers - best to ask these people who have a lot of experience and tech support facilities - https://envirograf.com/product/benefits-of-intumescent-paint-for-wood/

Legally there should be a permanent label - otherwise there is no way of being sure some random certificate covers that particular mattress - I would ask for a replacement mattress with the permanent label and if they give any trouble go to Trading Standards

It shouldn't be an issue - there has been robust legislation since 1974 to ensure that there are appropriate alarms and protected (from fire & smoke) escape routes such that unless you ignored the situation for a very long time you won't be trapped. A 7th floor jump will almost always be fatal or life changing in any case.

Probaby not with it being a small older conversion - as there must be an FRA for the block this should advise, but it's unlikely to be essential

Fire resistance performance test evidence does exist for some night latches. But compliance also depends of the core-type for the timber-based fire door in question. An experienced fire door inspector should be able to assist you. Failing that, an experienced fire risk assessor may be able to help.

For anything above the second floor, you are more at risk of serious injury or death from jumping out of the window than the fire itself. A decent alarm system should notify you long before the escape route becomes untenable, if the fire is on the other side if the door, you will have a minimum of 30 minutes for the fire brigade to rescue you