AnthonyB Posted August 1 Report Posted August 1 Usually the top floor would also be lobbied if it was required, not just the lower floors (not lobbying the top floor is a principle for non residential buildings not flats) Your layout could well comply without the partitions completely as in this example from the official guidance "A guide to making your small block of flats safe from fire" Without seeing the actual premises and carrying out an FRA I can't be 100% sure but there is a possibility that the doors are not required - also changing hinges does not apply retrospectively either - a common mistake (& money maker for those who remedy it). Also in small blocks retrofitting of strips & seals, whilst desirable, is also not always required. Quote
Guest Colin B. Posted Saturday at 14:42 Report Posted Saturday at 14:42 Hi. Bit late to this topic. Our flat fire doors have just been upgraded for 2025 regulations. Query… fitter has used bits of intumescent strips rather than a single strip on door edges. Also common area flat threshold to carpet, he used a couple of bits rather than one length of trim. please help. many thanks in anticipation 👍 Quote
Guest Composite fire door Posted Sunday at 11:59 Report Posted Sunday at 11:59 Hi. I live in a small purpose built block of 4 flats - 2 gf + 2 first floor. Under 11m height. Single inner staircase and flats all open to inner ‘communal area’ (landing, stairs and entrance area) Doors of 3 flats being upgraded with certified fire doors and fittings. Door to 4th flat fitted with standard composite door, fitted 4-5 years ago and in perfect working order. Does this need to be replaced or is it possible to upgrade it, if so, how? Flat on ground floor. Is there any leeway in the Regs to allow this? Quote
AnthonyB Posted Monday at 18:16 Report Posted Monday at 18:16 Depending on the type and condition of the original flat doors there may have been no need to replace the three that have been done - there is no 'legal' requirement or 'new regulations' requiring existing flat front fire doors to be replaced wholesale in smaller blocks, the Government recently re-iterated this in a guidance note as too many flat owners were being ripped off with work not actually required. This is the current guidance on composite doors from the Government: Composite flat entrance doors Composite flat entrance doors are a relatively modern innovation (dating from the 1980s onwards) and have become popular because of their attractive appearance and low maintenance. A typical composite door comprises a thin layer of glass reinforced plastic (GRP), or thermoplastic material, with a core (which can comprise various materials, such as phenolic foam) to provide the fire resistance. In older blocks of flats, they will be found only as replacements for original timber doors. However, composite fire doors should not be confused with non-fire resisting uPVC doors, which have no fire-resisting core, but are sometimes installed by leaseholders. These doors should be replaced with fire-resisting doors and frames to ensure adequate protection. It is reasonable to assume that composite flat entrance doors manufactured after late 2018 have adequate fire resistance. However, this may not be the case if the doors were manufactured before this time. After the Grenfell Tower fire in 2017, a composite flat entrance door installed at Grenfell Tower achieved only 15 minutes’ fire resistance when tested. The door was manufactured by Manse Masterdor (a company that no longer exists), and a number of the company’s composite flat entrance doors, although designed to provide 30 minutes’ fire resistance, failed to do so when tested. This led to tests of a range of manufacturers’ composite fire doors by Government. It was found that, depending on the manufacturer and the model of door, the fire resistance of these doors ranged from eight minutes to over 30 minutes. Common points of failure were letterboxes and glazing (e.g. as a result of manufacturing defects, such as in the means of securing the glazing). Where the point of failure was the letterbox, remedial work can often be carried out by the manufacturer or a specialist contactor on site. This might also be possible in the case of the glazing. In case of doubt, advice of the manufacturer should be sought. A further issue is that the fire resistance of many composite doors was found to be different according to whether the door was tested from what would be the “common parts side” or the “flat side”; this was because, when originally tested, the doors were only tested from the “flat side”. If it can be confirmed (e.g. from documentation or liaison with the manufacturer/supplier) that the doors were supplied after late 2018, there should not be an issue, as the composite door industry doors are now tested from both sides. In the case of doors manufactured before 2018, you should seek further information regarding their likely fire resistance. The Government have published the results of their tests on specific manufacturers’ products,[footnote 10] and information can be sought from the manufacturer or supplier of the doors. In the case of these “legacy” doors, it is normally acceptable for adequate fire resistance to be provided from the “flat side”, as it is not expected that there will be a serious fire, of the severity used in fire resistance testing, within the common parts. Provided that the doors would have been purchased as 30 minute fire-resisting doors, from the perspective of risk and compliance with fire safety legislation, no immediate action is normally necessary, provided the fire resistance of the doors is, at least, around 15-20 minutes; the doors should be replaced over time as part of routine maintenance. If you are in doubt regarding the adequacy of the fire resistance of composite flat entrance doors, you should seek the advice of a specialist, such as a third-party certificated fire risk assessor or fire safety consultant. Quote
Guest composite doors Posted yesterday at 15:18 Report Posted yesterday at 15:18 Many thanks for your response and may I ask if you have a link to the recent government guidance on 'wholesale replacement of fire doors' in small buildings. The three doors we are replacing were not fire doors - one glass + 2 non-fire. Also, I found the guidance on composite doors slightly confusing as it speaks of 'doors manufactured from 2018' have adequate fire resistance without differentiating between standard & fire proof composite doors. I think that their guidelines must relate to composite doors manufactured as fire doors. An excellent forum and thank you again for all the contributions Quote
Mike North Posted 4 hours ago Report Posted 4 hours ago A guide to making your small block of flats safe from fire (accessible) - GOV.UK Quote
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