I am constantly being asked by LA's & FRA to upgrade ceilings in bar areas to 60 minute protection as per Part B, where living/sleeping areas are above. This is just about every pub and reasturant in the country. Is this retrospective a requirement for every establishment or just new builds/refurbishments?

Most pubs/reasturants will have 30 minute plasterboard ceilings and L2 systems in place, so does it need a 2nd plasterboard skim, which would involve massive distruption and removal refitting of many services or is there another option?

 

Thanks for you replies.

Are these separate flats or sleeping accommodation ancillary to the pub for the manager or licensee? Makes a difference!

Hi Anthony B

Private Quarters for the publican, so sleeping is a possibitity if they choose to do so..

12 hours ago, Rays said:

Hi Anthony B

Private Quarters for the publican, so sleeping is a possibitity if they choose to do so..

Seems a bit OTT if it's integral staff accommodation and operating a simultaneous evacuation policy with a suitable alarm system. 
Such separation can't be retrospectively applied as it's not required in existing premises FRA guidance, nor would any sensible risk assessor require it in their FRA.

Approved Document B is only for Building Regulations purposes so only kicks in for new builds or relevant 'building work' and would then bring in the 60 minute requirement as whilst it says "Compartmentation is not needed if one of the different purposes is ancillary to the other." it does say that if that ancillary use is a flat it must always be treated as a separate Purpose Group.

ADB is not law, Building Regulations are and it is permitted to propose alternate solutions that would afford suitable safety such as BS9999 (which would allow 30 minutes where the floor of the upper storey is not over 5m)

Sounds like you need to find a fire authority with experienced and enlightened staff & set up a Primary Authority arrangement with them!

Thank you once again Anthony, your thought process mirrors that of mine, your final sentence however maybe a step to far as we are a national UK business.

Are you engaged in major alterations of these pubs rather than assessing existing control measures? Here (NI) full plan applications will inevitably require 60min. 

Hi Lyledunn

No major alterations are planned for any of the pubs under my control. Thanks for your response.

You can imagine how it would look for a national enterprise if there was a fatality in the living quarters due to a fire in one of their pubs! Irrespective of whether the floor fire resistance was a contributing factor or whether robust control measures were in place to mitigate non-compliance with current building regulations, I can hear the TV journalist with a microphone stuck in their face sensationalising the non-compliance issue! It must indeed be a nightmare to manage a rational fire safety strategy for a plethora of individual circumstances across the separate U.K. nations.

I hope I am not telling granny how to suck eggs, but increasing fire resistance of floors can often be easier done from the space above. 

If I was conducting the FRA I would bring it to the landlords attention that the ceiling were not up to the current standards, it is then the landlords responsibility as to what he does with this information.  If I didn’t then I carry the risk,  its called pass the buck!