Fire doors and block insurance

[Ronan]

Hi,

I have asked around and did not find anyone that could give me a clear answer, so I am trying here now in the hope that one of you experts can clarify this for me.

I live in an apartment complex and every front door is a FD30 fire door. I think that if you change a fire door in a way that's not specified on the CF datasheet then the door loses its certification, but what I can't understand is if the insurance company could refuse a claim just on the base of that.

For example if the changes to the door didn't affect the rating, and in a fire they could withstand 30 minutes, then can the insurance company just deny the claim because the certificate wasn't valid, even if the door still performed as expected?

Thank you

[George Drayton]

You have an fd30 door the door has/ should have certification and that design of fire door has been tested for 30 mins. If you modify that door it's test certificate is invalid. If you modify your door it loses it's fire protection .  

[green-foam]

On 22/05/2023 at 10:18, Ronan said:

then can the insurance company just deny the claim because the certificate wasn't valid, even if the door still performed as expected?

Insurance companies often look for a reason to decline a claim. The only thing you can do is ask your insurance company............but then they would know you have probably changed something on the door.

[Ronan]

thank you @George Drayton and @green-foam. That is exactly the problem. I know the door certificate now is not valid anymore and if I go asking the insurance company 100% they are going to say I need to replace the door. My problem is that I cannot find anyone that does it, I'm ok with paying to replace the door but no one wants to take responsibility, it's a bit of a joke.

I want to add to that the management company is not doing any check, it's been years that my door is like that, isn't that their responsibility? I learned about this stuff by chance but it's not my responsibility to know this.

[green-foam]

In general management companies are just that, they manage things and make money for themselves, to check all fire doors for compliance (apart from the obvious failures) they would have to get a certified fire door inspector in (which wouldn't be cheap) and the logistics (and so cost) of checking all doors would be extortionate. If you want your own fire door changed, most carpenters will "have a go" but can not certify the work, (Which I suspect is why you had problems) so I suggest you search for "certified fire door installer in xxxxxxx" (Where ever you live) Bear in mind it is not unusual to change the door and frame as it comes as a set (Including hinges and associated door furniture.)

[George Drayton]

Ronan, There is no such formal qualification for installing fire doors. These are misleading advertising. Yes you can enroll on a coarse with such companies the likes of trada etc, non are an actual formal qualification , they are a theory course not practical , many of the attendees  on these courses are also management who have not been directly involved in any practicle work whatsoever. Your new fire door can be installed by a competent person. As the RRO states a competent person is someone with sufficient knowledge,experience and qualifications. A joiners trade qualifications NVQs, city & guilds etc are the qualifications, his experience at installing doors &frames and his knowledge of the required criteria required for fire doors and frames ie BS8214 which he would have gained on site over the years.

Regards George 

FDIS Inspector & tradesman 

[Ronan]

Thank you @George Drayton! This is invaluable information!!! I was getting caught into the weeds of certified installers and couldn't find any that would come for just an apartment door. There are a couple of joiners with years of experience though that are willing to do the job and your post put my mind at ease.

They also both said that there is no need to change the frame as that is already for FD30 doors and they can just change the door leaf, I'm not an expert so tend to believe what they say. If they do that in compliance with the standard then it should be good right?

[George Drayton]

5 hours ago, Ronan said:

Thank you @George Drayton! This is invaluable information!!! I was getting caught into the weeds of certified installers and couldn't find any that would come for just an apartment door. There are a couple of joiners with years of experience though that are willing to do the job and your post put my mind at ease.

They also both said that there is no need to change the frame as that is already for FD30 doors and they can just change the door leaf, I'm not an expert so tend to believe what they say. If they do that in compliance with the standard then it should be good right?

If they complete the work to the required standards, that's good

[Ronan]

thank you very much, you put my mind at ease