NickT

Hi Sean I believe the trim you are referring to is what I would call a loose stop. These fit to the frame to form the rebate that the door leaf closes against. Thicker stops were fitted during the 80s & 90s as existing doors were upgraded and the thicker 1” thick stop used was believed to improve the integrity of the door set. These days with rigorous testing this stop is considered suitable at a minimum of 12mm thick by 25mm wide. If my understanding is correct, it sounds like the advice you have received is seated in the past and not relevant to a door set manufactured in 2006.

Yes its definitely a black plug, there are others with the blue and yellow plugs in the same area, I now have more information. The doors is old, the fire strategy designates them as FD120, they are 44mm thick and have a 32mm intumescent seal to the jamb & head, and are fitted with a black plug with a circular red core. Black plugs with red core from Q mark is for FD120 so I guess it could be a early forerunner to that. Not confident that a 44mm thick leaf will provide FD120 though. It still needs some investigating.

I Have found some doors, which I believe were manufactured in the 1980s. They have a black plug with a circular red core, very similar to the BWF plugs that I have seen. Does anyone know what fire rating is indicated by this black plug?

Thankyou Neil Much as I thought I have spoken to a few suppliers / manufactures of the last few days, none of whom have any fire certification of their own. As you say their general consensus is that these finger guards are a face fixed item they do not directly effect the performance of the door set in a fire. A timber fire door can typically be full faced with up to 2mm thick PVC faces without issue so adding a face fixed PVC type of finger guard could be expected to pose not issue, Aluminium finger guards and the type that also contain fabric pull out shields, are also untested by the manufacture with the exception of one manufacturer. I have found no PVC fingerguard supplier that can provide suitable fire certification, the product are just not tested at the moment, for the reasons mentioned above. Although some have tested them to demonstrate that they do not flame continuously. I am only aware of one fire door manufacturer, Forza doors, who have taken it upon themselves to test finger guards, they have tested the aluminium type with pull out fabric shields, from what I can see this testing is independent of the manufacturers of the finger guards so the only way to access this certification will be through Forza and their door sets as a whole package. The only other fully certified finger guard again alumimium with fabric guards, that I was able to identify was the Anther range, NR25, NR30 & NR38 which have been tested by the manufacturer so are suitable to use with any fire rated timber door up to 60mins. For fully undisputable compliance either supply Forza door sets with the tested finger guards covered by their fire certification OR fit Anther finger guards to 3rd party approved door sets. At this time it is still acceptable to fit other types of finger guards as the industry still considers these to be a face fixed item that do not need to be separately tested. But you will not have any documentation to back this up.

I have not been able to find a plastic finger guard supplier that is able to provide satisfactory fire certification to confirm that they have been tested for use with fire rated timber doors. Does anyone know of a supplier that can provide fire certification?

Lipping’s to FD30 door edges would normally be between 6mm to 18mm thick. Lipping’s to FD60 door edges would normally be between 6mm to 15mm thick. Lipping’s to rebated meeting edges would normally be between 20mm to 25mm thick. I would not consider dimensions outside of these sizes as compliant without specific test evidence.

Looks like it might be an IG door, I've seen quite a few properties with their doors fitted, The ones I've seen are metal skin with a yellow foam inner core, which can be seen by removing a door viewer, lock, letter plate etc. Check the hinge it might say IG on it. The ones I found were not fire doors. Not sure what they offer currently.

The Door & Hardware Federation Code of Practice: Hardware for fire and escape doors. Says that spring hinges that are purely spring urged are unable to comply with BS EN1154 and therefore should not be used for fire doors. A suitable closer that complies with BS EN 1154 should be fitted. The lock should be CE marked and suitable for use with a fire door, there are a number of fire rated locks on the market with the older style 3 lever 5 lever key available so it possible the one you have is suitable as long as it is correctly fitted and CE marked.

Hi Tony It is typical for - FD30 pairs to have 2no 10x4mm strips to the meeting edge of the primary leaf. FD60 pairs to have 2no 15x4mm strips to the meeting edge of the primary leaf. There are other combinations, but these would normally involve the seals being offset not directly opposing. The fire certification for these doors will tell you exactly what intumescent arrangement is required at the meeting edges. If this is a new install then you should be able to get hold of a copy, maybe from the O & M manual.

Approved document N has been withdrawn. I believe that you will need to look at Approved Document K - Protection from falling, collision and impact which is avalable to download from the government website.

Matt The cut out for a vision panel in a timber door will most likely have radiused corners, this helps to spread the stresses though the door and prevent the door cracking at the corners. If you are confident that the cut outs were carried out on site, then the certification will almost certainly have been invalidated. Doors with vision panels are commonly tested with rounded corners, the glazing systems and beads offer suitable protection in the event of a fire. You need to ensure the glazing system complies with the fire certification applicable to that door. It sounds like this is not the case. The recommendation to change the whole door may well be the best practice in this case. Adding products that have no evidence of performance for use in this situation would not be a suitable solution.