Jump to content

Neil Ashdown CertFDI

Power Member
  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited


About Neil Ashdown CertFDI

  • Birthday December 23

Contact Methods

  • Website URL

Profile Information

  • Gender
  • Location
  • Interests
    Fire Doors and installer/maintenance training

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. Hi AbiL, My advice is to talk to a specialist manufacturer of self-closing devices for advice about the best solution for your circumstances. With regard to fire door leaves manufactured in the 60s / 70s, construction type is likely to be solid timber core but may also include a layer of cement board or plasterboard (or asbestos if older) inside the core of the door leaf. Door cores of that type are likely generally to provide good fire separation qualities but of course the core of the leaf is not the only consideration. Failures of fire doors in terms of fire integrity are usually due to apertures fitted for glass panels, letter-plates etc or due to missing intumescent seals, excessive perimeter gaps or incorrect ironmongery spec/installation. You may wish to consider engaging a 'competent person' to undertake a suitable fire door inspection and report.
  2. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Smoke seals for double action fire doors

    Fire doors will be required to provide fire and smoke compartmentation. What exactly do you mean by 'swing'? Fire doors up to FD60s can be single action or double action.
  3. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Intumescent strips and smoke seals

    Intumescent seals do not degrade with age in normal circumstances. If they are damaged then replace all seals for that particular fire door, do not replace just one seal because seal types can vary and all seals to the door assembly should be of the same type. A communal fire resisting door, in a block of flats, would be required to provide 'restricted spread of smoke at ambient temperature'. Therefore suitable smoke seals will be required.
  4. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Do I need to change fire door frame

    Hi Brad, I would advise you to contact a certificated fire door inspector to inspect the 'solid timber' door. They will be able to advise if the door is suitable. With regard to new fire doors in existing door frames, I would advise you to replace the existing doors, door frames and hardware with suitably fire rated items.
  5. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Scope of Installer certification

    To be certain of the reason, you would have to either: 1) Ask the contractor exactly why? or 2) Find out which third party certification scheme is concerned and talk direct to the scheme provider. It may be that conditions exist regarding the contractor's certification scheme membership. A possible reason is that, the contractor is unable to verify suitability and compatibility of all the components of the fire door assembly / set, because they are not (this time) also the supplier. I note you state "certification of competency". It is important to understand that with third party fire door installation certification schemes, it is the company that has the certification based on audit work by the scheme provider. The individual installers, employed by the company, may not always have received training by a third party. Fire door inspection work has sometimes revealed non-compliances with third party certificated products and installation work, so unfortunately certification is not always a guarantee of quality. Currently, there is no legal requirement for fire door installation work to be 'certificated' but the work should be carried out by a 'competent person' in accordance with product installation instructions / relevant British Standards.
  6. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Up grade old fire doors

    Suggested sources for information to help: The 'Code of Practice: Hardware for Fire & Escape Doors' http://firecode.org.uk/Code_of_Practice_hardware_for_fire_and_escape_doors.pdf Intumescent Fire Seals Association www.ifsa.org.uk 'BS 8214 : 2016 Timber Based Fire Door Assemblies Code of Practice' https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030332501 'Timber Panelled Doors & Fire' https://planning.islington.gov.uk/NorthgatePublicDocs/00243092.pdf With regard to planing through lippings, I don't know of any 'lipped FD30 or FD60 timber fire door' that permits planing-through. Usually a 6mm retained thickness is required. The website https://www.falconpp.co.uk/technical/ provides access to technical manuals for a number of fire door leaves and deals with lipping of fire doors. Access to Certifire data sheets for certificated timber based fire doors https://www.warringtonfire.com/certified-companies BWF Certifire best practice guides https://firedoors.bwf.org.uk/publications/guides-and-directories/
  7. Best practice guidance for timber based fire doors is that the door to frame gap and threshold gap should be in accordance with the door manufacturers installation instructions. Where the manufacturer is unknown the gap should be 2mm to 4mm and this includes at the leading edge too. For the threshold the gap should be 3mm where cold smoke protection is required or 10mm max where no smoke protection is required or where a threshold smoke seal is fitted. When re-lipping door edges use hardwood such as White Oak, Dark Red Meranti or Sapele. Retained lipping thickness should be 6mm min and 18mm max. and sanded flush with no gaps where the lipping meets the door leaf.
  8. For information about threshold smoke seals as well as fire and smoke seals for timber based fire doors visit https://www.ifsa.org.uk/
  9. Whether or not a timber based fire door would still provide the required level of fire protection when installed upside-down depends on its core construction. As you have the label you can contact the technical help desk at the door manufacturer to find out. Don't forget the threshold gap should be 3mm not 10mm where cold smoke protection is required. Or you can fit a threshold seal.
  10. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Interrupted fire door seals

    Hinge positions, types and fixings are all important when fitting timber fire doors. Ensure that you adhere to the fire door leaf manufacturer's installation instructions.
  11. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Fire Doors opening over ramps

    Timber based fire doors should be installed in accordance with the fire door manufacturers instructions and BS 8214:2016 Timber-based Fire Door Assemblies. Code of practice. This means max threshold gap should be 8mm to 10mm (depending on doors test evidence) for a Fire only door OR 3mm where the Fire door has to provide restricted cold smoke spread. It may be necessary to re-locate the fire doors away from the ramp or at the top of the ramp????? If that's possible??
  12. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    When and where are fire doors required in office building?

    The guidance document AnthonyB refers to (I think) is 'Timber Panelled Doors and Fire' dating back to the 1990's but still relevant.
  13. Hi Neil, You are correct there are some misleading statements doing the rounds. The first thing to say is that there's no legal requirement for fabricators at the joiners shop to have a dedicated fire door qualification and the same goes for installers. However, clearly better results are likely to be achieved where those operatives do have adequate training. The problem with fire doors is that its easy to fall foul of the requirements and finish up with a non-compliant fire door. Many certificated fire doors have strict trim allowances and so are only suitable to be used in their standard sizes, so fire rated door blanks may be a better option where openings are non-standard. Although of course where new fire door frames are to be installed it may be possible to add to the door frame thickness to suit standard size door leaves. The bottom line is that the fabrication and assembly works must be compliant with the fire performance test report for that particular fire door leaf, and requirements may vary from fire door leaf to fire door leaf. The correct and compatible hardware must be fitted and the installation works must again be in accordance with the requirements of the fire test report. Most door leaf manufacturers provide installation instructions, data sheets and technical manuals but the quality of detail within those documents does vary. Start by selecting a fire door leaf that not only is suitable in terms of fire rating but also in terms of durability and resistance to heavy use. Then obtain the technical manual/product data sheet for that fire door leaf. Follow the information therein being careful to observe the requirements in terms of fabrication, selection of compatible door frame, seals and ironmongery as well installation. Be careful to use the correct product for fire stopping between the door frame and the surrounding wall, some fire foams do not have test evidence for timber based fire doors. Also, be careful where air transfer grilles are required as these products do not offer cold smoke protection. You should provide a copy of the technical manual/data sheet for the door leaf and all other components that make up the fire door assembly for the client O&M manual. Furthermore in support of the fabrication/assembly/installation works it would be good practice to provide photographic evidence that the work has been done in accordance with the product data and installation requirements. Also, be careful to make sure you adhere to the requirements for cold smoke protection. The most important thing is that fire doors are fabricated, assembled and installed compliant to the evidence of fire performance so if you can demonstrate that's been done then your client should be happy. Ultimately, though your client may have there own requirements such as inspection and sign-off by an inspector or that products and installation works is third party certificated. In my experience, though, third party certification of some products and installation works is no guarantee of quality. Please don't be put off, go for it and provide a quality service for your client. We need more competent and diligent fire door contractors. Useful and important resources: Product technical manual/data sheet for the fire door leaf and all other components of the fire door assembly. BS 8214:2018 Timber Based Fire Doors, Code of Practice. Code of Practice: Hardware for Fire & Escape Doors. Information sheets about intumescent fire/smoke seals https://www.ifsa.org.uk/documents/ Hope this helps.
  14. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Threshold on fire doors

    Yes the threshold can be carpet. However, if the door is required to restrict the spread of cold smoke (most fire doors will be) the gap between the door bottom edge and the floor covering should not exceed 3mm (reference BS 8214 and BS 9999) so it would be better to fit a threshold plate. This would make it easier for the correct threshold gap to be maintained.
  15. Neil Ashdown CertFDI

    Flat fire door for private entrance

    Is it likely that the door will be subject to the weather or changes in humidity levels?