Hello

 

I am working in victorian property that was converted into three flats in 1986. It has a communal hallway and there are three flats over three floors.

 

The FRA has confirmed that a Grade A LD2 system is to be fitted along with other upgrades to the hallway fire protection.

 

Heat detectors will be fitted into each flat but I was told by a tenant that they should be fitted in the kitchens but this would involve long cable runs across the very ornate plaster ceilings.

 

Running the cabling in the ceilings /under the floors of the flat above is restricted by solid oak flooring and surface mounting seems the appropriate installation method.

 

Each flat already has its own independent smoke detection (240v with battery back up) and I seem to remember that the heat alarms could be fitted on the ceiling inside the flat as long as they are away from the entrance(1000mm)?

 

I have tried to find the guidance unsuccessfully but I am sure that the wealth of knowledge on the site will know, or will tell me where to find the answer.

 

Thanks

 

Garry

 

 

Your tenant is wrong - the Grade A communal system need only provide a heat detector and sounder in the hallway of each flat to support the full evacuation strategy required as a pre 1990's flat conversion.

The self contained Grade D system already in the flats is there for the individual flat occupiers protection from a fire in their demise and if installed previously is likely to have been to the minimum standard of the time, LD3, which would only require a smoke alarm in the hall.

New installations in flats would usually be LD2, as would upgrades for existing and this is when you would get a heat alarm in the kitchen linked to the hall smoke alarm (not the common system)

Both Grade A & Grade D systems are common as wireless linked systems which might be an option.

I was told a different stiry by my local authority (Guildford Borough Council). 

Our alarm system was installed in 1996 but GBC told me that, because the British Standard covering heat detectors in flats has now changed to make them mandatory in kitchens, we must retrospectively  install mains-powered heat detectors linked to our central alarm system in the kitchen of every flat (7 of them) in the block.  At the moment, only the lobbies of flats opening onto the communal staircase have them (3 in total). Battery-powered ones are not an option.

On 29/11/2023 at 18:42, Guest Keith said:

I was told a different stiry by my local authority (Guildford Borough Council). 

Our alarm system was installed in 1996 but GBC told me that, because the British Standard covering heat detectors in flats has now changed to make them mandatory in kitchens, we must retrospectively  install mains-powered heat detectors linked to our central alarm system in the kitchen of every flat (7 of them) in the block.  At the moment, only the lobbies of flats opening onto the communal staircase have them (3 in total). Battery-powered ones are not an option.

You aren't in Scotland, it isn't retrospective & the BS is not law.

We have had heat detectors put inside our doorways and something in the vestibule as only 2  masionettes, they said we had to have a signal, since then they have installed more alarms in massionettes across the road in another building and it caused our to go off, our fra stated converted building but it was purpose built, medium risk and considered a hmo, I had lfb do safety check before I saw the FRA and they said itwas low risk and not a hmo, housing association not interested, said they are folowig the FRA and that's it. How do you chalenge this sort of thing and charging 13. 72a week service charges for this. 

Something doesn't add up from what you say - without seeing the premises it's difficult to say - an external photo shot to give an idea of age, type and construction would help (you can paste photos into replies as well as attach them).

If it is indeed purpose built as maisonettes and not converted then, whilst there are some circumstances where linked systems are required (& usually temporarily until the issue requiring them is resolved) they are very rare compared to conversions or true HMO's

A building of self contained flats can be legally a HMO if it is converted rather than purpose built, does not meet building regulations and is at least 2/3 rental occupancy, but again it doesn't sound the case.

First Tier Tribunals to overturn incorrect fire safety requirements and charges are not uncommon but I'd need more info before determining if the requirements are reasonable or not.