Steve Blakemore

Do you have access to the buildings Fire Strategy as the office doors may not need to be fire doors but have just been put in. I have found that a lot but when seeing a Fire Strategy the way the compentmatation had been worked out they actually didn't need to be fire doors. Just a thought from my own experience as I am learning all the time.

Sorry just browsing through and never replied to your question. The company was Total Doors in Wales. Am back inspecting composite doors again and am now armed with all the correct tech information. If it had been followed by the installers then great but sadly not so the gaps are mostly wrong and the frames are twisted. The gaos however around the doors should be 4mm + 1 or - 2 for your info, but not sure if that only applies to the Winkhaus brand or all composite doors. Likewise they are fitted with 2 intumescent strips 15mm x 4mm and 10mm x 3mm. The smoke seal is An Aquamac 21 which is a weather seal but has been tested for smoke when used with this manufacturer.

Make sure its not a composite door as I have been having issues with those where the manufacturer won't permit them as they were not in the original design.

Thats exactly the ones i have been seeing. Thankyou Neil

Thanks

Not sure if I posted this as a guest by mistake. Are batwing type seals acceptable as smoke seals. I have been told by one seal company they were hot gas tested not cold smoke tested and I am finding them used a lot in housing associations in some cases as well as brushes on composite doors. Please help are they acceptable as smoke seals. Thanks

Well I passed on the helpful information I received, the client pushed the manufacturer for all the documentation. The information that came back was very sketchy to say the least even a hand drawn smoke seal ………. then at the beginning of this week they went bust (bit of a coincidence ) so sadly the housing association and another large one in Wales will now have to foot the bill for the remedial work needed. Thanks again for your replies.

Thanks for that all info is very helpful, cheers.

Thanks Neil. The customer has contacted the the manufacturer who sadly is also the installer and they have come back saying they meet all the standards required. I have a meeting with the customer next week where I will get them to request the installation instructions as there us no way they could say and un even gap of between 3mm to 10 is acceptable and also being FD30s then with a 3mm gap been brush and frame can be acceptable. Sadly I have come across this co.pany supplying and fitting doors for 2 large housing associations with the same problem. Steve

Thanks Tom that's what I thought

Hi. Probably a daft question but there is only one British Standard regarding fire doors irrespective what the door is made from? Ie wood or composite . The gaps around the door seem to vary on FD30s doors from 3mm to in some cases 10mm at a job I have been on. The client has gone back to the manufacturer and installer and their reply to the customer is they meet the standards for composite doors, where I have failed them on an inspection due to the gap sizes. To me it looks like bad installation , but as this is the reply from them to the customer it has made me think. In some cases where is is a 6mm gap the smoke seal brushes are actually making contact with the door, so to me these brushes don't meet the standard of 4mm either. Any help is appreciated. Steve

Ok tha is Tom.

Ok that makes sense then as there are quite a lot of doors sobthatvwould potentially reduce the amount going through one doormat any given time. What do you think about the lip on the threshold plate being a potential trip hazard, as I tripped on it in a calm situation, should something be done about that?

Thanks I have read something about the 60 person rule but wasnt sure if that's legislation or not .The doors are at a care home of 34 residents and an attached day centre. With visitors etc the foot traffic throughout the building would be well over 60, but the building is 15 years old and these doors are original. No one has picked up on this direction of opening before and that there is a lip on the threshold plate that could b a trip hazard. Well it is actually as I tripped over it lol. So again i sit here confused as to me it goes against the grain to have them opening inwards.

Hi, Is there legislation that states that a final exit door should open outwards or is this just a good working practice ? Thanks

I managed to speak to the window manufacturer who were very helpful and confirmed the sealant used is definitely not intumescent and thus negates the door certificate.

Thanks just looked briefly at the link and that's some bedtime reading but very helpful and at least I am less confused now. Still seems a crazy idea to me not to have some form of closer.

My apologies for all the questions. I have completed an FDIS but am find things that were not covered sadly, but I guess not every course can cover every eventuality. Another job i have visited was built 5 years ago. It has 62 residents with at least 30 in various states of Dementia. At night there are approximately 7 staff on duty. All the communal doors have a various door closers but not one of the residents rooms has a closer of any fashion, but only an electronic mortise style lock using a tag to unlock them. All the doors are FD30 and have the correct seals. Above the door is a blank plate where electrics could be fitted for a closer. I was told that this maybe linked to the FRA and that if the rooms have a sprinkler system inside them that maybe the reason they dont have a closer. The rooms have no sprinklers, infact there are no sprinklers in the whole building. Sadly i haven't been able to gain access to the FRA yet but will be attempting to again on Monday when I return. Is this true about the sprinklers or is it possible for the FRA to say a closer is not needed? I have visited approximately 30 different homes recently and haven't come across this before so its confused me slightly. My gut feeling based on the standard of workmanship is the builders just didnt bother to put them in but surely not! Thanks Steve (Confused)!!!!!

Thanks again both it does seem like a dodgy sealant was used as the staff call them blood doors as it looks like blood dripping. I am back there tomorrow so will look into speaking to the manufacturer of the glass as I know the housing association are worried about cost and not thinking about the fire protection of the doors.

Hi on a current job a Maintenance company has come in and replaced all the Georgian Wire glass with plain fire rated glass on a client request. The sealant appears to be leaking ie, running down the door. The manager has said she was told the sealant had a 2 part mix and they haven't mixed it correctly so will never set. Is this correct for Intumescent sealant and is there a way to tell other than with certification that they have used an intumescent sealant? Thanks for any help

Great that's a big help thanks both

Hi being relatively new to door inspections I have come across numerous doors that have a Cold Smoke and Fire Seal fitted but the gap is less than 3 mm especially on the hinge side. Is this still acceptable as the brushes do seem a little squashed? Thanks Steve