Meady
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Posts posted by Meady
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Hi - sorry, can anyone help me on this enquiry please?
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Hi All, am I right in saying that the additional checks (over and above those performed during a FRA) only apply to buildings 11m+ and 18m+?
The Gov guidance I am looking at, to me, reads that blocks less than 11m only require the "Information to residents" section to be added to their management plan?? But I confess to be no expert in this area!!
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We have been advised by a fire door contractor to fit a FrameFit – Fire Door Upgrades to our fire doors to help reduce the operating gaps.
These look too good to be true, so I am wondering if any of you fire door inspectors have a) come across these and b) would accept them if inspecting a door?
Previous door inspections have suggested removing the frames and packing them out to reduce the operating gaps, which is obviously a lot more work, so if the Framefit devices are acceptable, we would obviously be interested in these.
But we don't want to waste time and money if the Framefit is not compliant!
Any thoughts / advice would be appreciated.
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On 18/07/2022 at 20:03, AnthonyB said:
By definition a Grade D alarm is powered by a 240V supply, the 1 or 2 defining if the back up supply also required to each alarm is a sealed tamperproof battery/cell or a user replaceable battery.
If you only have the built in power supply and no mains then it is only a grade F alarm (which can only be used in a rapidly decreasing number of situations) being a F1 or F2 again depending if the (sole) power is from a sealed tamperproof battery/cell or a user replaceable battery.
Hi Anthony - thank you, I think you've made it clear that we need to be going along the 'D' route. The 'F' style alarms worry me due to the risk of people simply knocking them off the ceilings if they go off! Thanks as always for your advice - genuinely appreciated.
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On 18/07/2022 at 11:17, Harry said:
Hi Meady
here an overview of the BS5839-6 standard and the grades.
D1/D2 can be interconnected with RF but power-supply has to be by mains power.
Deviation from the mains power supply requirement would have to come from the specifier. BS5839-6 is a standard, not the law, so if it can be justified, deviations are allowed when specifying the grades for a property.
Harry
Hi Harry - thank you, that is a great help! ?
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On 08/06/2022 at 22:42, Tom Sutton said:
I cannot give definative advice without knowing the layout of the premisses I would need a detailed description or preferably a detail sketch. I am asumimg that your house is an upside down design, upstairs is living and the ground floor sleeping. The upstairs should be a heat detector and should be separated from the downstairs by 30 minutes. The downstairs should be smoke detectors.
Thank you Tom - much appreciated.
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Please can anyone give us some advice?
Grade D1/D2 alarms - do they have to be mains powered (with battery back up) or can they be 10-year, sealed, lithium battery powered only?
BS5839-6 seems to suggest that they must be mains powered in some way with options for battery back-up depending on D1/D2. But can wireless radio-linked devices suffice as a suitable alternative in the guidance?
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We have an open plan kitchen and lounge on the first floor of our home - but the ceiling is pitched (height approximately 5-6m).
Do we need to have both a smoke and heat alarm fitted in the top of the apex? Or would a single heat alarm suffice?
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On 14/01/2022 at 19:59, AnthonyB said:
One of these days I'll have to start invoicing you! ???
Glad to help.? Would be worth every penny! Your advice is truly appreciated. Thank you.
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2 hours ago, Mike North said:
That's great - thank you Mike.
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On 11/01/2022 at 21:21, AnthonyB said:
It would be reasonable to say they should, but you cant say they must unless double swing.
Thank you AnthonyB - the good old 'should' and 'must' scenario!! ?
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Hi AnthonyB - thank you so much for such a detailed reply! That is really useful information - many thanks!
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I was wondering if you could help clarify something in ADB Vol's 1 and 2 for me please relating to the requirement for vision panels in doors in particular in schools.
I can see that there is a requirement for vision panels on doors dividing corridors and doors which are hung and designed to swing both directions. But should doors which open on to stairways also include vision panels too?
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Please could someone give me a steer on the required levels of fire separation between basements and ground floors?
Situation is a commercial premises; the basement is served with independent stair which is fitted with FD30s at top. The stair is separated from the main stair to upper floors.
Basement is not ventilated. Basement is also unoccupied but does contain mains electrical distribution board and gas valve / shut off.
Building Control accepted FD30s at top of stair on basis basement has smoke detection fitted which is linked to building fire alarm system.
Fire Risk Assessor advises that because basement has no smoke / heat ventilation, it must have 60-minute separation and has advised either upgrading door at top of stairs to FD60s or add another FD30s at base of stairway.
In ADB Volume 2, it appears to state that only 30-mins fire separation needed between basement and ground? Or am I reading this wrongly? So why would a) Building Control say FD30s is fine as long as smoke detection fitted and b) why is Fire Risk Assessor stating it must have 60 mins separation?
I've also looked at the HM guidance documents for fire safety risk assessments and cannot see anything in them either.
If anyone can help point me in the direction of correct documents / articles to read it would be a great help.
Thank you! ?
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14 hours ago, AnthonyB said:
You would expect to see a separate door unless the car park is so small the single exit via the protected stair to the offices above is sufficient.
You can link the shutters, but the secondary supply is difficult and expensive to provide as often requires 240V or even 415v and rarely provided.Thank you AnthonyB.
Yes, it is a fairly small car park (20 spaces) but we were just worried that sending people in to the protected stairway may be sending them further into the building, whereas if they could exit directly from the car park (either via an exit doorway or somehow upgrading the shutter) it would prove better / safer?
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9 hours ago, Lyledunn said:
I think the shutter must have been added after sign off. I doubt anyone would have considered it an acceptable emergency exit at design stage. Added for security perhaps? Clearly fire safety usurped if the opening was indeed the original emergency escape.
Ahhh....yes, that could well be the case! It was built in 2006 and we cannot find the fire strategy document (if there ever was one) - we will check! Thank you for that.
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Please can someone advise us - we have a car park under our office block which holds 20 cars when full. Only used by staff and visitors to the offices.
Car park has natural ventilation (grills) but is enclosed with an electrical powered roller shutter which is also the fire exit designated in the car park.There is a manual fire call point next to the roller shutter.
Also, the shutter can be manually operated from inside the car park area using a chain.
There are no doors next to the shutter, but another door in the car park access’s the internal stairway to avoid car park users having to go outside before going upstairs.
Questions are;
a) should shutter be interfaced with fire alarm so it automatically opens upon actuation?
b) should shutter have power back up or is manually operated chain adequate?
c) should this be an exit for fire or should there also be a door next to it with some form of panic release mechanism?
See below image taken from inside car park area which hopefully gives clearer idea of the shutter in question.
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Hi Tom, thank you. The links are really helpful.
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Hi All,
Do all roof voids (regardless of size) in premises need to be compartmentalised with walls which extend to the underside of the roof to fall in line with the walls in the floor(s) beneath them?
Or does having continuous plasterboard ceilings remove the need for cavity barriers in the roof void at all?
We have a building which has a protected stairway used for refuge and evacuation, and has continuous plasterboard ceiling across the top floor between roof void space. But the walls in the stairway do not extend up through the roof void space leaving the roof void completely open space.
Diagram 9.1 of ADB suggests the voids should have cavity barriers (regardless of ceiling type?) and I cannot see any specific mention in the Gov documents to help.
Any guidance / steer would be much appreciated.
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On 07/06/2021 at 20:05, AnthonyB said:
This is the guidance the pipeline has to comply with to be accepted in the stair: https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l82.pdf
Hi AnthonyB, that's great - thank you as always for your help.
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51 minutes ago, Tom Sutton said:
has the owner received a building regulations compliance certificated?
Hi Tom - not for the gas installation. They had sign off certificate when building first constructed (approximately 8 years ago). But no certificate / sign off for the new gas system and the pipe in the stairway.
What are you thinking?
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I was wondering if anyone had any experience or thoughts on this please?
We have had a new gas system installed in a small block of offices; it has 3 floors (ground, first and second) and has a single, protected stairway.
The contractors have finished, but we went to inspect the premises today for general H&S reasons, and noticed that the main gas pipe has been fixed in the singe stairway.
Its copper and has not been enclosed in any way - I have attached a photo to show you what I mean.
Does this cause anyone a concern? I've never seen this before - in the other properties we look after, the gas pipes are enclosed in cupboards and have vents / grills to the outside wall.
Is this 'compliant'? I have done a bit of research and found this on a contractors website, but don't fully understand what it is saying, or what the fire hazards are associated with this?
Using Building Regulations guidance ADB and BS9999 , gas service and installation pipes or associated meters should not be incorporated within a protected stairway unless the gas installation is in accordance with the requirements for installation and connection set out in Pipelines Safety Regulations 1996 [62] in respect of the service pipes for natural gas and Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998.
My worry is that tenants may somehow damage the pipe accidentally. But wondered if anyone had any experience or thoughts which may help guide me in the right direction please?
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That's great - thanks very much Tom.
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Please can someone tell me if all hatches to lofts / voids which form part of ceilings along means of escape (protected corridors and stairs) need to be fire rated or not?
We cannot see anything in ADB Vol 2 which specifically mentions this so any steer would be much appreciated! ?
Framefit
in Fire Doors and Accessories
Posted
Hi Neil, thank you very much for coming back. Would you as a competent fire door inspector typically accept this method as a suitable way of reducing the operating gaps (on the basis all other parts of the door-set are adequate)?