CWEENG

There is a number of agents that can be used as a replacement for Halon and the best one will depend on the individual risk, the volume of the area in question etc. Dependant on the current installation , existing pipe work and discharge equipment will normally have to be changed due to pressures, fluid flow rates etc. Feel free to PM me and I can pass on a couple of contact details of some individuals that will be able to help.

I have twice now forwarded a link to a company that would be able to help " Guest_LesClif" who is looking for a location to obtain ID Disks for Fire Doors. Why has my post with the companies web site been removed?

As the business owner and the person with control over the premises, the staff and the processes undertaken within the premisses, you are the "responsible Person" and the one with the responsibility to carry out or have the Fire Risk Carried out by and outside provider. Then act on the findings as appropriate. When it comes to any issues arising from the fire risk assessment in relation to the building then that is an issue between yourselves and the landlord and the terms of your lease. If you are part of a multi occupancy with common areas then the landlord is responsible for the fire risk assessment of the common area and to co operate with the tenants in relation to any significant findings. Hope that helps.

BS5839 currently require that; The method of operation of all manual call points in a system should be that of type A as specified in BS EN 54-11. All call points should be identical unless there is a special reason for differentiation.

A short extract that I prepared for a client recently with a similar question. Cant remember wear I took most of the text from. In many premises a fire may be obvious to everyone as soon as it starts (e.g. in a simple open plan village hall). In these cases, where the number and position of exits and the travel distance to them is adequate, a simple shout of ‘fire’ or a simple manually operated device, such as a gong, whistle or air horn that can be heard by everybody when operated from any single point within the building, may be all that is needed. Where an alarm given from any single point is unlikely to be heard throughout the building, an electrical system incorporating sounders and manually operated call points (break-glass boxes) is likely to be required. This type of system is likely to be acceptable where all parts of the building are occupied at the same time and it is unlikely that a fire could start without somebody noticing it quickly. However, where there are unoccupied areas, or common corridors and circulation spaces in multioccupied buildings, in which a fire could develop to the extent that escape routes could be affected before the fire is discovered, an automatic fire detection system with a control panel which is able to identify the zone or specific location where the alarm has been raised may be necessary. Within the selection and design of such an automatic system, you may need to consider special arrangements for times when people are working alone, are disabled, or when your normal occupancy patterns are different, e.g. when maintenance staff or other contractors are working while the premises are closed.

If you are referencing to the Installation Company” I am presuming that it is a relatively new install. Approved fire door sets, that are properly installed should not have this problem. I would recommend that you as the” responsible person” have the situation investigated by a “competent person”, whoever picks up the bill (different argument) As you are now aware of the issue, and in the future the worst was to happen, you need to be mindful of the blame game, and as the “responsible person” you do all that is practicable.

In normal office building there is not reason for the sound to be so high as top cause discomfort. A sound level of 65db is required as a minimum but this could be reduced lower in certain circumstances. In any case the sound pressure levels should not be greater than 120 dB(A) at any normally accessible point. As long as the levels are correct in relation to the requirements of the standards governing the installation of the fire alarm system, and it is not just a case of over sensitive hearing, (sorry ladies) you could ask the service company to turn down the sound levels on the devices, or approach the issue from a H&S aspect dealing with excessive noise in the work place.

Vents are normally designed as vents, Purely for Smoke Control or Vents designed for Smoke Control and Environmental use. When vents are designed and constructed, the mechanism will be designed around the perceived usage taking into consideration the amount of times the vent will be operated in the designed life span of the units, mindful of testing , maintenance, false alarm rates etc. Vents designed purely as Smoke Control will have a lower factor in relation to quantity of operations than Vents designed as both Smoke Control and for Environmental use. These will have a higher factor for the increased usage, opening and closing, while being used as a vent and still allow for the correct operation as a smoke vent when required. If the vents in place are purely designed for smoke control and not as environmental, then additional used of the vents for environmental use may have an impact on the life span of the units. This may be the reason for the request not to use them, and would be justified. If the vents are designed as duel purpose then there would be no safety issues if the vents were to be used for environmental reasons as well as smoke control when required. I would ask the relevant person for the justification behind the request not to use them, and ask to see some form of supporting evidence from the maintenance company that would show that they are purely designed and installed for smoke related reasons and that they are not designed for environmental reasons. After all you are a tenant, and as a tenant I am sure the common areas are yours to use as designed to, and if the design of the area was to have environmental vents in place, they are also yours to used for this purpose?

The short answer is that, For installations in non domestic buildings, twin and earth cables normally used in normal electrical installations is not suitable or compliant with the requirements for the installation of Fire Detection and Alarm Systems. A system installed in this way would not be compliant to BS5839-1. With a bit more info about the site and the installation I would be able to point you in the right direction as how to proceed and what recommendations you will need to be making to your client so that he can make the decision on what to do.

In general, floor area for a single zone should not exceed 2 000 m2 If the total floor area of the building is greater than 300 m2, each zone should be restricted to a single storey / floor. If the total floor area of the building is less than 300 m2 a zone may cover more than a single storey (mindful of total quantity of devices). For systems using conventional detection (non addressable), the search distance should not exceed 60 m in distance, so a an additional zone would be required if a search distance is greater. detectors within any enclosed stairwell, lift shafts or other enclosed flue-like structure should be considered as a separate detection zone. PS BS 5839-1:2002+A2:2008 has been superseded now by BS 5839-1:2013 (only minor changes within but they still felt it necessary to bring out a full revamp, ££££££)

Had my tyres changed by a mobile engineer lat week, his van was a mobile workshop, with compressor, generator etc. I did not look to see if he had an extinguisher in the van, (he had everything else) but this I assume would be classed as a work place all be it was on wheels and in turn should have been fitted out with suitable portable extinguishers.

HI From a user point, the system is required to be checked on a weekly bases (commonly referred t as the weekly bell test), this is normally carried out at the same time each week. If you are part of a multi occupancy and the Fire Panel is controlled by others (the landlord) you should expect some form of interaction with him on a weekly bases when the testing is taking place wear he or his representative should be checking that you have heard the bells / sounders and that there are no issues to report such as concerns over sound levels. If he is not, Have a word? This gives the opportunity for the responsible person to confirm that the system and associated equipment (door hold open devices, door release devices etc) is capable of operating. This is carried out by operating a manual call point, Each manual call point to be used in rotation on successive weeks. Also it give the occupants a chance to experience the alarm sounds relating to fire. In environments with shift work a bit more management I required with additional bell checks to satisfy shift work. The system should also be subject to a regular maintenance by a Competent Person ( fire alarm engineer) that will carry out a more in depth service and maintenance of the system. This is carried out at a minimum of 6 monthly in normal cases. The period of 6 months may have to be shortened dependant on the environment that the system is installed into or wear subject to addition wear and tare or is being abused in any way. Your Fire Risk Assessment should highlight the case if additional maintenance of any fire safety equipment is required.

Occupancy m2 per person Floor space guidance examples, Dance area, 0.5 Bar , 0.3 Club, 0.5 Venue for pop concerts , 0.5 Space with loose seating , 0.75

Try http://www.nihe.gov.uk/hmo_standards.pdf

Thanks Tom, I have had a look through this, but again its looking for that definitive figure.