neil60210

Thanks Anthony. The block of flats in question is in London W14 ( 5mins drive from Holland Pk roundabout, off A40.) So, if I could just ask that last Q again - I agree that current situation is probably adequate, especially if we installed an independent alarm within the cupboard itself - but as we are think of going for CE marked FD 30 door, hinges etc - you think FD 30 meets regulations or would you, as a matter of course, recommend FD30s? Thanks for all your help.

Thanks very much, Anthony and Mike. To answer your questions – there is only the one consumer unit in this small cupboard, and yes, it is enclosed in a metal casing. However, I’d need to check whether it has any kind of fire rating. The other units in the cupboard are just the electricity meters for the five flats (each flat’s consumer unit is located inside the respective property), and I believe these are plastic – again, I’d need to confirm this Im passing by this weekend s9 will check Is it possible to upgrade the electricity meters to a metal casing, or can only the consumer unit itself be upgraded? In 2017, based on advice from the FRA, we had the cupboard “retrofitted” with gypsum lining, intumescent strips, fire-retardant foam, an FB2 lock, and appropriate signage. It passed the next FRA inspection but failed the subsequent two inspections on the grounds that “the electricity cupboard was not suitably fire resistant and should be upgraded to provide a minimum of 30 minutes fire resistance.” I challenged this but was unable to obtain a clear answer from the FRA regarding what had changed in legislation to justify this new requirement! Personally think the inspector is adopting a “ belt and braces” approach but difficult to challenge unless I can quote regulation and that there has been no material update - could you point me in the right direction? We are now proposing to follow the FRA’s recommendation by upgrading the doors to FD30 with appropriate hinges, etc. However, surely if we’re doing this, it would make sense - and be best practice -to include smoke seals, i.e., go for FD30S? The FRA’s response, as noted above, is that FD30 is adequate. Quite frankly, I feel we are being poorly advised. If you were conducting an FRA where an upgrade was deemed necessary (a moot point in this instance) would you be recommending FD30s doors or will, indeed, FD30 be adequate? Anthony - do you actuall do FRAs in London? Thanks again!

I’d be very grateful for some advice re above topic. Victorian house converted to five self-contained flats in early eighties. One single fire escape route being the communal stair. “Get out, stay out” policy in place. Grade A, LD 1 fire alarm system is recommended and we’re in starting s20 process to get installed. The “snagging” issue is the small electricity cupboard on the ground floor of the communal hallway. There is no alarm in the electric cupboard nor has it been proposed for the alarm upgrade. It was “retrofitted” in 2017/2018 at a cost of c£1000, on advice of Combined Fire &H&S report, with additional fire resistant material on back of door, locks, signage and the meter itself is enclosed in a metal frame, per attached picture. I can’t attach more due to file size limitation. But it failed subsequent Fire/H&S, with last Fire/H&S report commenting: “the electrical intake cupboard, situated in the entrance hallway, was not suitably fire resistant and should be upgraded to provide a minimum of 30 minute fire resistance. The door should also be fitted with intumescent strips and smoke seals, complete with a lock to prevent unauthorised access, and electrical hazard signage”. It further goes on to state “ employ a competent contractor to construct a suitable 30 minute surround to the electrical system. Ensure all door, frames, door furnishing, smoke seals/ intumescent strips comply with BS476.” Two quotes were sourced by the Managing Agent one mentioning FD30 doors and FD60 but neither mention S I attach the quote which was the cheaper of the two - still over £1100 +VAT. it makes no mention of providening documentation. I have questioned the apparent discrepancy re quote referring to FD30 not FD30 S. First response from MAs “senior Fire Inspector” was “the quote is acceptable” and on further questioning, as I thought response was unprofessional /inadequate, the response was “Thank you for your query regarding the installation of the new cupboard door. As a fire door inspector, my primary concern is ensuring that any modifications or installations affecting fire doors maintain compliance with relevant fire safety standards. If the new cupboard door installation is accompanied by comprehensive documentation confirming that all materials and installation methods meet the required standards, there is no reason from our point of view to consider the door non-compliant. Furthermore, as long as the cupboard itself is 30 minutes fire resistant, it should be acceptable. This fire resistance rating ensures that the cupboard does not compromise the fire integrity of the door assembly in the event of an incident” Again, to my mind, this is a somewhat wish washy response and avoids addressing the substantive point, as it still does not cover the apparent discrepancy between the quote and what is highlighted in Fire Risk Assessment i.e need for smoke seals. In fact smoke seals were fitted in previous retro fit, so we seem to be taking a retrograde step! I am also conscious of the guidelines Fire Safety (England) Regulations 2022 (Fire Door Guidance) which state “ the government is committed to ensure that undue burdens are not created for freeholder and, through Sevices charges, leaseholders” We paid £1000 ish 7 years ago to get cupboard “upgraded”. We're happy to pay again if it is a legal requirement but we seem to be going round in circles and not able to get a definitive answer from MA Could someone provide advice as what is legal requirement for this situation? Sorry for the long first post and hopefully it makes sense. Thank you very much.