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Guest Marie

Fire doors in a domestic 3 storey house

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I would advise a thumb turn on the inside so that your teenage daughter can unlock from the inside without needing to search for the key.  The Fire Safety Order does not apply inside your own private home but as its an FD30s door your may like to fit a fire rated lock. Personally, I would.

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Guest LynR

Thanks Neil. We have used all fire rated handles/hinges etc on the fire doors. 

I was just worried about the door being locked as an escape route, rather than as a means of containing a fire. She won't be locking herself in it. 

Thanks all.

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Guest MartinP

My son live in a top floor maisonette with the bedrooms on the top (3rd) floor.  The bedroom doors are fire doors.  He want to put a cat flap into the bedroom door which would clearly be against the safety regulations.  We do, however, have a radio linked smoke alarm system with a detector in the stairway on each floor.  Does this affect the rules which would allow the fitting of the cat flap?

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Guest MartinP

Hi Neil,

I'm the landlord  🙂 The freehold is owned by Lambeth council.  

 

 

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Guest JoD

Hello 

We have had dormas adding to an existing attic I had been advised by the architect and the builder that I needed a fire door on the attic and the garage door which we have done we have smoke alarms on every landing level and kitchen. I have now been told after all doors are installed and painted that we need to suitably treat all doors off the staircase including ground floor level we were previously told this was just on the internal side and was just habtal rooms ( excluding bathrooms) but don’t seem to be getting this confirmation in writing now. We also being asked for a suitable application certificate. This is now going to be a huge expense also I am confused exactly what doors need doing and struggling to get clarification. They are also various products on the market varying in price I have no idea! Also these products talk about fd30 protection but from what I am reading on here it says fd20 what is the difference. Who is the best person to speak to for help and advice? Can we put anything in the attic as an escape route or add another fire alarm in the attic bedroom? 

Thanks very much 

Jod 

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This project is subject to the Building Regulations and the architect and the builder are required to carry out the requirements of the building control inspector (BCI) to get the completion certificate, which they need to give you on completion of the contract, to prove the works meets the requirements of the building regulations.

Two storey dwelling houses were fitted with FD20 doors, and substantial, well fittings standard doors were considered to meet that standard. (Nominal door) However, if they should fail, it was considered the occupants could drop from open windows to escape. However, a three storey dwelling house, escape via a window was considered unacceptable, because of the increased possibility of serious injury, so a 30-minute standard means of escape was required. 

The architect will have produced drawings most probably according to Approved Document B (fire safety) volume 1: Dwellinghouses which would show a means of escape from the third floor to the front door meeting a 30 minutes standard, also the door to the integral garage needs to be an FD30s with a self-closer.

All habitable rooms, (excluding bathrooms) off this escape route should be fitted with full FD 30 doors but it appears the architect has agreed with the BCI that these doors can be upgraded, except the loft door. Fire Doors are tested from both sides because when hung, either side could be facing the risk side, but this is not the case for existing doors because the risk side is easily identified, so I would argue that only the risk side need to be upgraded,  but it looks like the architect has not convinced the BCI.

It is understood by many that manufacturers consider it does not make economic sense to get doors tested to FD20, because D30 fire doors will meet both standards so you will find very few for sale. Also because in the past, unscrupulous manufacturers claimed their FD30 doors, including other fire safety products, had been tested, which was not true, so now inspectors require documented proof.  

Without full access to all the details, I cannot give a definitive reply and the best advice you can get will be from your local building control.

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Guest Andy

Hi can I ask something. If you are doing an open plan layout and kitchen on the ground floor, can you create the fire wall Nd door protection on the first floor? 

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