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Guest Michelle M

Fireproof cat flaps

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Guest Michelle M

I'm having problems with my local authority. There is a fat flap that has passed the following regulations BS476 Part 22 (1987) and prEN1366-3.
Thus according to the manufacturers makes a cat flap on a fire door fire safe.

Can you confirm this, please.
You confirmation of this will be greatly appreciated. thank you

Michelle

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Those standards indicate it meets a fire resistance standard but not controlling cold smoke which may be required for the front door of flats ,leading to the common areas.

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Guest Melanie O'Shea

Hi

I'm having the same problem.

I found a draught proof cat flap that could fit inside the envirograf intumescent surround, so preventing the passage of smoke.

Then to cover the cat flap with intumescent paint( Which burns the same amount of. time as the door) would this be acceptable? 

I thought that if it doesn't affect the burning time negatively and prevents the passage of cold smoke then it would be the same as not having a cat flap.

Your thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Melanie

 

 

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Presumably the products you fitted in your fire door came with evidence of fire and smoke performance to BS 476 pt 20/22 (or EN 1634-1)and BS 476 Pt 31.1 respectively?  If they did not you are likely to have a problem in demonstrating suitability for installation in to a fire door. 

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Guest Melanie O'Shea

Hi Neil

Thanks for getting back to me.

Up until now I have only the envirograf surround which does have certification. I haven't purchased the intumescent paint yet, but it is from the same company.

The cat flap is draught proof so would prevent cold smoke, I would be making it fireproof by covering it in intumescent paint.  

The materials would take the same time to burn as the door. How can this be unacceptable?

Melanie

 

 

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Hi Melanie,

You are clearly taking a responsible and sensible approach. Assuming everything else is OK with the fire door and that self-closing and fire and cold smoke separation is compliant the main area you could have a problem is the cat flap. You say its draught proof and 'so would prevent cold smoke' but if the authorities require it could you provide evidence of performance to 'BS 476 Part 31.1 smoke penetration through door-sets' ?

I am being deliberately pessimistic here because the fire and cold smoke performance of flat entrance doors is critical to the safety of other inhabitants and the fire door should meet the cold smoke restriction requirements of the above standard. See Tom's comment from November last year (above).

Might be worth asking your supplier if they supply an intumescent fire rated cat flap that has also been successfully tested for cold smoke spread though? If they don't supply one.............then why is that............... and (how) can they recommend one for a flat entrance door?

Kind regards, Neil.

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Guest Melanie O'Shea

Hi Neil

Thanks for your input, it's really helpful. 

The draught proof cat flap has not been tested as far as I can tell. So that is a problem,  the company that supplies the intumescent surround, Envirograf, makes all sorts of fire and smoke proof  items that meet current legislation. 

They have an intumescent letter box unit  with smoke proof flap tested to BS476 part 22 1987 maintaining integrity of door for 61 mins. Also European standard EN 1364-1 (2000) achieving 68 minutes. 

I was thinking to ask them to make a variation of this:

All Metal or more fireproof material (no need to see through) is metal a good option?

Two flap doors, one on each side tested to be smoke proof.

An intumescent surround.

Fitted using fire proof adhesives/ materials and all proved to burn as long as, or more time than, the door.

Would this be acceptable?

Or please could you give me a better idea. As i believe that I would have to commission Envirograf to make it. I'm disabled on benefits so I really hope it wouldn't be extremely expensive.I would love to have a solid, acceptable idea to approach them with.

I find this whole process unfair for people with outdoor cats, Lucky is 13 and has always had access in and out of our home. I appreciate where the housing association is coming from but I think people should be allowed to care for their pets properly.

I really appreciate your help and advice, Neil, your knowledge is important to me. If we could build something that was up to the job, imagine all the other people we could help.

Many Thanks

Melanie

 

 

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Hi Melanie,

I do sympathize and commend your approach in trying to find a solution. Fire door compliance is about using tested fire and smoke separation products, backed up by evidence of performance and  installation of these products should be in accordance with the manufacturers instructions so as to ensure performance in real life. 

One area where smoke performance for a cat flap could be a problem is maintaining the seals against general wear and tear? My advice is to contact manufacturers of intumescent seals and smoke seals to discuss possible solutions. You could try: Mann McGowan http://www.mannmcgowan.co.uk/ , Lorient UK http://www.lorientuk.com/products/acoustic-seals-smoke-seals-and-fire-seals-for-door-assemblies and Envirograf https://envirograf.com/product/surface-mounted-intumescent-fire-firesmoke-seals/

Kind regards, Neil.

 

Edited by Neil Ashdown CertFDI
Typing error corrected

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Guest Melanie O'Shea

Hi Neil

Sorry for the late reply, I've followed your suggestions and am waiting for replies.

With regards to BS476 part 31.1 smoke penetration through door sets, I read it and it referred to it's source BS 9999: 2008:

"This Document addresses the need for sealing the threshold of a fire resistant door assembly, stating that if the gap at the threshold exceeds 3mm, then a threshold seal must be used."

am I right in thinking that if the gaps are less than 3mm then legally that is ok?

However, regardless of whether it is isn't legal I would still want intumescent strips around the flap door. 

Also please could you tell me that if the entire flap was metal, with smoke seals around the flap door, all coated in fireproof paint proved to BS476 part 20/22 and backed up with the intumescent surround, how could it it be wrong? especially as the entire apparatus would take the same time or longer to burn than the door.

I really appreciate your help and advice as you are pushing me to find a safe solution that is in line with current legislation.

Many Thanks

Melanie

 

 

Many Thanks

Melanie

 

 

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Hi Melanie,

"This Document addresses the need for sealing the threshold of a fire resistant door assembly, stating that if the gap at the threshold exceeds 3mm, then a threshold seal must be used."

am I right in thinking that if the gaps are less than 3mm then legally that is ok?" If the threshold gap at the bottom of your flat entrance door does not exceed 3mm then you will not require a threshold seal. 

As far as the cat flap is concerned I would advise you to consult the manufacturers/suppliers previously advised with regard to evidence of fire and smoke performance before taking further action.

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Guest Melanie O'Shea

Hi Neil

Thanks for your input, I've been making enquiries as you suggested. I've found a company that states this: 

Our flaps are self-extinguishing polyvinyl chloride which would make them Fireproof .

Could you tell me what this means please.

Many Thanks

Melanie

 

 

 

 

Many Thanks

Melanie

 

 

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{thinking out loud} polyvinyl chloride is more commonly known as PVC or plastic, so although it may self extinguish, it would melt / disfigure so letting in smoke, also in the text it says would make them Fireproof, it does not say "does" make them fire proof. {Thinking out loud}

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Hi Melanie,

Did the other companies say why they were unable to help? From what you have said above it appears that you are unable to source a cat flap that meets the relevant standard ( BS 476 part 31.1 or EN 1634-3) for smoke control. The other companies can supply letter plates that meet that standard but possibly for a cat flap, being different by the nature of its operation, it may not be possible.  

I cannot see that the product you have referenced above meets the above standards. 

With regard to sourcing and installing a fire door for your flat entrance I would advise you to contact the authority that has requested that you carry out this work. Then provide those details to the supplier / installer so that they may meet the authority's specification / requirements. 

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Guest Sarah B

Hello,

I realise this thread is quite old but we have a similar question about cat flaps and fire doors. Our Garage has been split so that the door leading into the kitchen now enters through a separate laundry room (the garage is attached to the laundry by a wall but no door). The garage is currently for storage only as our car does not comfortably fit in it and our plan is to convert it into a second reception room at some point. In this case, would putting a standard cat flap into the fire door leading into the kitchen be a reasonable thing to do or is it still not advisable? Or could we replace the door with a wooden interior door? I would assume a fire door is unnecessary if the garage is no longer used to store vehicles but certainly don't want to be caught out should a non vehicle related fire happen and we risk losing coverage.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Sarah

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In my opinion, until you submit plans to building control for your consider alterations to the garage is still a garage and you still need a FD30 door with a self closer and if you want to fit a cat /dog flap it needs to be enclosed in a fire resistant device like Fire Proof Cat Flap Protector - Envirograf 118 which does not need to control cold smoke, as this is not required by approved doc B.

Check out https://hspfireprotection.co.uk/fire-protection-for-doors-joinery-glazing/1571-envirograf-product-fire-proof-cat-and-dog-flap-protector-for-exterior-and-connecting-doors-to-garages.html

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Guest malika
On 14/11/2016 at 21:58, Guest Michelle M said:

I'm having problems with my local authority. There is a fat flap that has passed the following regulations BS476 Part 22 (1987) and prEN1366-3.
Thus according to the manufacturers makes a cat flap on a fire door fire safe.

Can you confirm this, please.
You confirmation of this will be greatly appreciated. thank you

 

Michelle

Hi Michelle

I now have same problem as you. Plz can you give me the contact to get this cat flap/

malika50b@yahoo.com

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Guest Cathyc

Hi, I have found this thread really useful, many thanks for the infor so far. The fire door I have is panelled so the flat intumescent fitting would leave gaps, would I be right in assuming I should replace the door with a flat profile as well? 

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I would think the reason why letter flaps can meet the BS 31 standard is because the flap is most likely spring loaded, which i  imagine is not possible with cat flaps but you they can be held closed using magnets for security reasons therefore I cannot see any reasons why using this approach they could be designed to meet BS 476 Part 22 (1987) and BS 476 part 31.1.

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Guest Char

Hi, I live in a house that has been converted into 3 flats (Housing Trust). My neighbour has installed a cat flap in her fire door enabling the cat to come out into my property on the stairs. Has she compromised her own flat as well as mine by putting us all at risk if, god forbid a fire broke out?

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