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Guest GrantT

What certification is needed to be allowed to install fire doors?

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Guest GrantT

We are a building contractor and need to know if there is any certification or registration required by us before we can install fire door. Can we self certificate our own work or is this done by a different organisation.

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Guest Neil Ashdown

Hi,

There are ways you can train your installers and schemes you can join to enable you to provide evidence of your competence. The Fire Safety Order defines a Competent Person as 'someone with sufficient training and experience, qualifications and knowledge to be able to implement fire safety measures (some or all) in a building'.

www.fdis.co.uk - The Fire Door Inspection Scheme provides on-line education for all who work with fire doors. There are two levels, the Diploma in Fire Doors and Certificated Fire Door Inspector.

www.firas-database.co.uk - FIRAS is a third party accredited installer scheme and they offer training to installers and periodic audits of member companies installation work.

If you don't require training but require a Competent Person to sign off your installation work you could appoint a CertFDI fire door inspector at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector

Regards, Neil.

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Guest TomPr

Hi.

I've done a loft conversion and need to upgrade about eight doors to fd20. I'd like to do it myself and get the reqired certificate for the Building Control Officer. The Officer cant tell me how to do it but gave me a website. But the website just wants to do the job themselves which I'm reluctant to let them do.

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Guest JamesCoc

We manage blocks of flats with communal areas. A recent Fire Risk Assessment has identified some minor repairs required to intumescent strips that have been painted over, and minor adjustment to the fitting of some doors. Can we use a competent Joiner for this work albeit that he isn't qualified specifically to do BS476 and BS8214 work. Thanks. James

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Guest Ole

Does anyone one know all the names of 3rd party accreditations for fire door installers. So far I found FIRES, TRADA, BRE & IFC.

Also is FENSA contractor ok to use to install an FD30 fire door?

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The important thing is that the installer is competent. Ask the installation company what reference documents they use and what standards they work to when installing fire doors and also what training the installers have received. Personally, if they are not familiar with 'BS 8214 : 2016 Timber based fire door assemblies Code of practice' and the GAI / DHF guidance document 'Hardware for Fire & Escape Doors' I would not employ them.

Some clients are now requesting, as a condition, that the installation company provides a report by a competent third party confirming that the fire doors have been installed correctly.

Third party accredited installation companies have their quality management systems audited periodically, their managers receive training and some of their work is subject to inspection by the scheme provider. FENSA, to the best of my knowledge, do not operate a third party certification scheme for installation of fire doors. Their have been numerous reports about poor quality and non compliant fire door installation work so remember, competence is king. 

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Guest Fire Door Certificates

Can someone please advise if each fore door within a building should have its own separate certificate of compliance or is it acceptable to have a type certificate . I have approximately 2500 fire door-sets installed in my building and I need to be confident that we are in full compliance with our statutory duties / obligations.

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You don't say if you are referring to new fire door installations or existing ones and this makes a difference because:

1) If you have had new fire doors installed the installer should be able to provide you with fire and smoke performance certification for the products used to make up the fire door assembly. The standards applying to fire and smoke performance for fire door components are BS 476 part 20/22, BS476 part 31.1 , BSEN1634-1 and BSEN1634-3 (the list here is not exhaustive). He should also be able to provide confirmation that the doors have been installed in accordance with the door manufacturers instructions and BS8214:2016.

2) If you mean existing doors then you must refer to Article 17 of the Fire Safety Order ( http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1541/article/17/made ) to ensure that fire safety devices (this includes fire doors and escape doors) are subject to a suitable system of maintenance and are maintained in an efficient state, in efficient working order and in good repair.

With regard to your question about separate certificates or one certificate for all doors, this would depend on numerous factors, not least, on whether the fire doors are all the same product with identical components. My advice is to seek advice from a Certificated Fire Door Inspector at www.fdis.co.uk/inspector He or she is the Competent Person as referenced by the 2005 Fire safety Order. 

Hope this helps, Neil.

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Neil thanks a lot! This surely helps. I am going to analyze the link that you've given more carefully! thanks for answering that and for the detailed explanation. I can see that you know these things very good so I thought, do you mind if I am going to have some questions to ask you, please? thanks a lot!

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Guest Kevin

As an installer do i need to be certified to install fire doors? I am FENSA registered but when i phoned them i was told i didn't  need personal certification, the door does and i need to follow the suppliers fitting instructions.

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Hi Kevin,

I am assuming here we are talking about timber based fire doors? The important thing is that the fire door is fitted in strict accordance with the manufacturers installation instructions. Depending on the manufacturer those instructions may make reference to the requirements of BS 8214 the Code of practice for Timber based fire door assemblies. If so you will need to refer to both documents (the British Standard and the manufacturer's instructions) for component selection and installation criteria.

If the fire door leaf is certificated under the scope of the BWF-Certifire scheme you will find a label on the top edge of the door leaf. On this label you can find the manufacturers contact details and a number with the prefix 'CF'. If you go to https://www.warringtoncertification.com/certifire/technical-schedules.html you can find the data sheet applicable to that CF number. That data sheet will provide information about component compatibility and installation requirements. 

The data sheet and installation instructions may not provide information about installation of cold-smoke seals so it will be helpful to get information from the Intumescent Fire Seals Association website at http://www.ifsa.org.uk/documents/

FENSA are correct there is no legal requirement for certification for the installer but evidence of fire (and smoke) performance is required for the products. In England and Wales the 2005 Fire Safety Order refers to the 'competent person' so as you are installing fire safety devices you may have an obligation under the scope of fire safety law as that competent person. Competent Person is defined at the HSE website http://www.hse.gov.uk/involvement/competentperson.htm 

Finally, training for fire door installers and maintainers is available and so is worth some consideration.

Hope this helps, Neil.

 

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Guest Daryl

Hi Neil,

I was hoping you could help me too,

Does the no legal requirement for certification for installers apply in Scotland? The company I work for is looking to install fixed glazed fire screen our main contractor has sourced. I am struggling to find information online confirming that it is or is not required for us to be a certified installer. So i was hopping you could point me in the right direction

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You don't say if the work you refer to is subject to building regulations or whether the client has stated any requirement for the materials or installation to be third party certificated. The Building Regulations in Scotland 'Technical Handbook: Fire' can be found at http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0052/00521763.pdf 

The regulations describe third party certification schemes but do not make it a mandatory requirement. However, the client may specify that the work must be carried out using a third party certificated glazing system or installed by an installer belonging to a third party certification scheme.

Whatever, the requirements in terms of products and installation, the work must be carried out competently and helpful guidance is available from the Glass & Glazing Federation at http://www.ggf.org.uk/groups/fire-resistant-glazing-group/fire_resistant_glazing_best_practice_guide 

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Guest mark

I work for a fm company and we have 12m fire door inspections. do we a a engineer need any certificates/training to carry this out? 

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Guest Engineer

Hi I have a timber fire door where I work that needs new glass. Can I install or would a trained person need to do this 

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All glass types are available on a supply-only basis but it must always be fitted into a frame that has the appropriate test evidence, using the glazing seals and bead types that are approved for that particular glazed system. Competent persons who have the relevant specialist knowledge must always carry out the installation of the glazed system, according to the construction and components given in the accompanying evidence of performance. Fire-resistant glass must only be used as part of an appropriately approved glazed system. 

Check out http://www.ggf.org.uk/?geodir_search=1&stype=gd_place&s=Fire+Resistant+Glazing&sgd_placecategory[]=&snear=&sgeo_lat=&sgeo_lon=

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Hi Engineer, 

You say the door needs new glass so I am assuming its already glazed but that the glass is damaged.  If so make sure the new glass is suitably fire resistant and that the repair work is completed using the correct gasket materials, hardwood bevelled glazing beads with pins/screws of the correct dimensions at the correct centres and angled towards the centre of the door core thickness. This document may be useful to you https://www.ggf.org.uk/publications/fire-resistant-glazing-publications/guide-best-practice-specification-use-fire-resistant-glazed-systems/

Do not attempt to cut an aperture for glazing to a fire door without first seeking expert advice. 

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