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Neil Ashdown MAFDI

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Everything posted by Neil Ashdown MAFDI

  1. Are you sure it's black and not blue? Blue plug with red centre indicates FD60 with intumescent seals required.
  2. Interesting. Thank you for posting 🙂
  3. Hi Maddy, Find a person that has experience and can demonstrate competence relevant to the type of fire door you have. Ask for their credentials.
  4. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-approved-document-b
  5. No but assuming the door/frame is timber, stainless steel would be best. Before you go ahead make sure the groove for the seals is clean and consistently of the right depth and width to match the seals.
  6. If the finger guard manufacturer cannot provide this, it is likely that the reason is that in the event of a fire they would burn quickly and fall away from the door assembly. Thus not affecting the fire integrity performance of the door when these are fitted to the fire risk side. On the non-fire risk side, the inherent insulating characteristics of the timber door should mean that the plastic-based finger guards will not be affected.
  7. If you use adhesive it will make it difficult to take them out if necessary. Instead you could you short panel pins to hold them in place.
  8. You could ask https://www.facebook.com/PhilPropertyTurtle/
  9. Its OK. The intumescent strip & smoke seal may be interrupted at lock and hinge fixing points. If the inspector/assessor disagrees, ask them to provide specific evidence that the seal must be continuous and uninterrupted.
  10. Are the intumescent seals installed in such a position that they are directly opposite each other?
  11. There are various types of smoke & acoustic seals. Eg: https://www.lorientuk.com/products/acoustic-smoke-and-fire-door-seals/acoustic-smoke-and-fire-seals Safelincs most likely supply a similar range of seals.
  12. Without identification of the glazing, in terms of the gaskets and the door leaf in the case of the MDF frame its difficult to answer your questions. Are there any marks on the glass that could be used to identify the product? Also are there any stencil marks on the top edge of the door? Begin there to try and trace the products to the relevant installation data sheets, failing that you could engage an experienced and knowledgeable fire door inspector for consultancy. Alternatively, a suitably experienced fire risk assessor may be able to provide 'risk-based' advice.
  13. On the basis that there is still part of the integral garage present (but smaller than it used to be), then the separating wall needs to be suitably fire rated and if there's a door in that wall it should be minimum FD30(s) self-closing. Refer to Approved Document B of the Building Regulations in England. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/fire-safety-approved-document-b
  14. You could ask them to provide evidence of performance for fire resistance and restricted spread of cold smoke.
  15. The double leaf doors, if fire doors, should have intumescent seals and smoke seals at the meeting edges too. Loss of Certifire labels is a common issue but a competent fire door inspector would usually be able to identify the doors using residual pieces of label and manufacturer marks on the doors. There are 45 doors so there's a reasonable chance that enough information is still present, assuming all doors are the same. More of an issue, usually is where the door has been incorrectly installed thus invalidating the product certification.
  16. If you go for an 'off the shelf' fire door leaf, be aware that trim allowances are often very tight. It may be necessary to use thicker door frames to comply with fire door leaf installation instructions, where the surrounding wall to door frame gap would otherwise be too large. So my guess would be no better than 50 / 50, depending on the type of property, and I would be ready to expect to have to order custom made doors or fabricate them from door blanks. However, there are some 'off the shelf' fire doors (Premdor CF625 solid GDC chipboard for example) that permit significant trimming off the bottom edge.
  17. As Mike says, that's the whole point of the survey. So that you can order the correct sized door and if you can't get what you need 'off the shelf' you can get them custom made. Clearly, if you did have a workshop you could fabricate the doors using certificated fire door blanks. But you need will also need the knowledge to do it correctly to retain that certification.
  18. If you carry out a full on-site survey for each door before you purchase the door-sets and order them accordingly, you should be OK.
  19. So clearly you have identified risks that the doors may not be adequate in resisting fire and smoke spread. Therefore these need to be considered carefully and addressed appropriately. The performance required from those doors may very well depend on how the building is used. For example if there's sleeping accommodation then the risk could be high but if its an office the risk could be low. For best effect prioritise your remedial works according to the risk to people at the building. All of the defects you describe can be resolved but some may be challenging.
  20. The 4mm max gap is specified by the fire door manufacturer based on their evidence of performance from fire resistance tests to BS 476-22 and/or EN 1634-1. So its a requirement otherwise the fire performance certification becomes void. Obviously, once the door is installed at the building those gaps might change when the door is subject to high humidity or excessive temperatures. Then it becomes a maintenance issue and the Fire Risk Assessor/Fire Safety Officer for the building should be consulted where there are issues around maintaining the 2mm to 4mm gap. Prioritising the cold smoke spread issue might well be a suitable strategy but its a decision for the FRA/FSO rather than the maintenance team. There is also guidance at BS 8214: 2016 stating gaps should be 2mm to 4mm for optimum fire resistance performance.
  21. In terms of how you use the door's Certifire certificate of approval for it's fire rating, the certificate should be relevant to the date when the door was installed.
  22. As far as fire door specific standards are concerned its non-compliant and the smoke seals are ineffective due to the 2mm gap. Refer to BS 8214: 2016. So in terms of fire safety, this would be the subject of an assessment by a Fire Risk Assessor and depend largely the door function, location and the use of the building.
  23. Furthermore, to sustain a live fire oxygen is a necessary element. Therefore, the larger the threshold gap then the more oxygen can pass under the door to help sustain the fire.
  24. Where a threshold gap is more than 10mm this could cause the door to fail to provide its 'ultimate' fire resistance as tested to BS 476 part 22 or EN 1634-1. You say that smoke is not the issue in your case so we will not address that separate issue here. The larger the threshold gap then the farther the door leaf can drop to the floor when the hinges fail to hold the door in position due to fire attack at those hinge positions. Therefore, a gap would open-up at the top edge of the door and the larger the gap, then the higher the risk of failure. So we are talking here about 'ultimate fire resistance performance' and this is the type of consideration that must be made by the fire risk assessor when deciding whether or not an existing fire door would provide adequate protection in a fire.
  25. Guidance available here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1124733/Approved_Document_B__fire_safety__volume_1_-_Dwellings__2019_edition_incorporating_2020_and_2022_amendments.pdf Building Regs Approved Document B appendix C section C15. Also 'Hardware for Fire & Escape Doors: Code of Practice' http://firecode.org.uk/Code_of_Practice_hardware_for_fire_and_escape_doors.pdf Clearly, this door is damaged beyond repair at the closing stile and the markings on the lock faceplate cannot be read from the photo so unsure if the lock pre-dates Construction Products Regulations. All parts of the lock should be fitted tightly to the door leaf and door frame with no unnecessary gaps or voids from 'over-morticing' and at the correct position (usually between 800mm and 1200mm from the bottom edge of the door depending on the door manufacturers installation requirements).
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