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- Today
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Because the fire doors may set due to the weight on the hinges and when they are required, the door could jamb, preventing them closing. Allowing them to close during the night ,at a time when the the facility is unlikely to be used, is a fair solution, a better idea is to have the self closer adjusted.
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I cannot see any problems with a rim lock but barrel bolts are a no no because any person could open them and leave them open defeating the purpose of a fire resisting enclosure.
- Yesterday
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Hi Got new 54mm thick doors fitted in an assisted living building, 2 wings, 2 storey, the doors close automatic about 9.45 p.m but if anybody uses them after that time, or the paper boy before 7.00 a.m the doors slam shut, make hell of a bang and shake the walls of the nearest flats 😞 I think the closers could probably be adjusted to make them close softer but Why cant the doors be left open all the time considering they are attached to the alarm system anyway ?
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I have looked at the white guide and knauff guide at MF fire rated ceilings and there is lots of info. However, I am trying to establish what fire resistance would be offered by a non fire rated 12.5mm plasterboard on a metal frame ceiling. The MF is plasterboarded is on the lower side only and there is no risk in the void above. I appreciate MF ceilings need various spacings for supports and hangers etc. The plasterboard has no markings for manufacture. Does anyone no where there is test data for such single sided plaster boarded ceilings of any thickness (with 3mm skim). Clearly it will be less than 30 minutes fire resistance but I am wondering if it would afford say 15 to 20 minutes which would allow time for persons to be evacuated from their bedrooms and adjoining corridor to a true FR30 compartment as a place of comparative safety. A fire in the bedroom would need to spread through the single sided 12.5mm plasterboard MF ceiling, over the non full height partition to the corridor and pass through the corridor ceiling from the metal frame side to affect persons therein. All ceiling penetrations would be FR30 rated. Ideally the corridor should be a proper protected FR30 corridor but I am looking to see if I can find any information to make an informed calculation as to what fire resistance will be offered to the escape corridor. From that point the Available Safe Escape Time can be gauged and from evidenced realistic fire scenarios an informed decision can be made as to whether the Required Safe Escape Time can be met (with a suitable safety margin). Any pointers would be appreciated - I guess the major manufacturers of plaster boards do not give out BS476 FR test results on all plasterboards. I assume to have such a test carried out as a one off would cost thousands of pounds. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
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I think most people on this forum are involved in English and Welsh fire law, with the Scottish/Northern Ireland fire laws so different, to get involved in more than one would need a lot of research, which would be outside to scope of many of us. However I did find this which may be of use https://www.gov.scot/publications/fire-safety-risk-assessment-forms-and-guidance/.
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space between fire door frame and opening
Neil ashdown replied to a topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
The requirements for sealing the gap between the fire door frame and surrounding wall are set out in 'BS 8214:2016 Timber-based fire door assemblies: Code of practice' https://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030332501 - Last week
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i have a client that has an electric service cupboard. it is fire resistant to 30 minutes. the doors are perfect with fire rated hinges, intumescent seals. my question is can he use a bolt or surface mounted rim lock to secure it. any help would be greatly appreciated.
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chris geary joined the community
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LABC usually require fire grade Rockwool stuffing suitably sealed in, there is also an intumescent foam designed for frames called Blue 60, which if used within manufacturers instructions and parameters will also suit. Pink aerosol fire foam is a waste of time as it doesn't work for 99% of the things people ignorantly use it for - it's actually only tested and OK for a very finite number of situations, usually very narrow and deep linear gaps between a concrete wall & floor slab and not much else (regardless of the complete fantasy on most cans and supplier websites)
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Not usually, no, the preferred solution is to build a cupboard/store room out of the space using 30 minute fire resisting construction & fire doors. Sprinklers are the slowest means of detection and your stair could be smoke logged before activation, plus with the storage you will not get the 500mm sprinkler head clearance to the understair head so it won't be effective and you will loose the escape route - likewise if there is no understair head the nearest ceiling head discharge will be obstructed by the stair rise and you will loose the escape route. If you are a large retailer you ought to have a Primary Authority arrangement - if you put a FRA proposal together with suitable fire engineering calculations that justify your case you can run it past them like Sainsbury did with fire alarm weekly testing going to monthly.
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Gbb joined the community
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Hi. If fitting a new fame into a brickwork opening and there is a gap of say 30mm either side. Would it be ok to use fire rated foam or can I use fire rated plaster. Any answers greatly received
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Good Morning, I am the health and safety manager for a large retailer, and i am based at the head office and main distribution centre. Our office consists of ground, 1st and 2nd floors, and we currently have an issue with storage of items under the ground floor of both fire exit stairwells. They are not large amounts, but before i communicate for this to stop across the business, the stair wells are also protected by a sprinkler system, including under the affected ground floor stair wells, does this make a difference as to if items can be stored here or not? i would have said no, but if anyone can advise, before i send out communications, i would appreciate it. Thanks Ian
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So long as the hinges are made from steel, suitable to carry the weight of the door, securely fixed and in good condition then there's no legal requirement to replace them. They might sometimes be marked BS7352 which was the standard before the current EN1935. If the hinges are worn or damaged replace all three with CE marked fire rated hinges to minimum grade 11, use a good quality hinge as you may find some modern hinges will wear more quickly than others. If the current hinges have lasted twenty years it would be sensible to replace them, when necessary, with good quality hinges. Just as a matter of interest, current building regulation requirements for hinges for fire doors can be found in paragraph C10 on page 151 of Approved Document B at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/832633/Approved_Document_B__fire_safety__volume_2_-_2019_edition.pdf
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Are you going upstairs (or going to the corner of a large open area)? If not then you do not use the up/left arrow. If you have to pass through a doorway it should have a compliant sign with an up arrow above it. If you need to turn left there should be a compliant sign on the wall with a left arrow on it (although if it's a very small lobby/area such that as soon as you pass through the first door you can clearly see the next door and sign I might be tempted not to need the sign) Change in direction, passing through a door and changing level all require their own signs, there are no shortcuts by putting anything other than an up arrow* above a door * a lot of people put a down arrow above a door to point at the door to show 'this door' which is technically wrong, but a debate all in itself as to how much of a real issue it is.
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Yes, get a competent qualified fire alarm engineer in to install, commission & service your system.
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No it can't, you are putting relevant persons at severe risk and it's one of the few cases where a Fire Service inspector would likely jump straight to a Prohibition Notice and if not complied with prosecution. Sleeping risk cases that get to court often have custodial sentences, both suspended and actual imprisonment. Depending on the size, nature and layout of the premises a temporary solution might be possible.
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Are they competent to an evidence provable standard that would be upheld in a court of law and able to carry out the work using the correct materials in the correct manner so they would perform as designed? If so then, yes. Whilst using Third Party Accredited specialist contractors is always the preferred choice it isn't (yet) law. A middle ground that some places use is that they carry out the work themselves then have the TPC contractor inspect and sign off the work which still works out more cost effective than just handing the whole job over.
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Simple answer - yes.
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Ideally not for health & safety purposes, but with some of the older building stock in the UK it can be unavoidable. Of course 'road' can be anything from a low traffic volume side street to a major arterial route - a risk assessment would be needed to balance the issues of escape v live highway risks
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It's simple - once you are out you are out. Any plan to sweep the premises should ensure that it is done as part of initial response and evacuation. Once someone is outside the building and at a place of ultimate safety it would almost certainly be considered a risk to relevant persons to make them re-enter. In theory, with an addressable fire alarm system, knowing the exact location of the incident you could argue that you could ensure you were avoiding the risk area, but I've never heard of this, plus without radio communications and someone monitoring the progress of the incident on the control panel you wouldn't know if it (or more importantly smoke/combustion products) was spreading your way If you are in a unionised workplace then it's certainly one for your union H&S rep.
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Will 1955 joined the community
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Hi There, I work in a building that was built approximately 20 years ago. The existing fire doors have intumescent strips and close automatically, but I cannot see any CE marks on the hinges, which lead me to think they are not fire rated. What are the legal requirements from the companies perspective? Do they need to upgrade all the hinges to comply with the law or as the doors are existing is this not needed until they are replaced? -
Installed EU fire alarm it’s giving general fault and flashing all 8 zones and sounder fault when try to reset any one can help thanks in advance
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Stumped on this one and any guidance appreciated. I was invited to look at a prospective HMO in a block of flats. The building in which the prospective HMO is located has four storeys, ground, first, second and third floors. The building is located in Scotland. There are two flats on each storey. A protected stairway accessed at ground floor level serves all storeys. The prospective HMO is located on the top storey/third floor. Storey height to third floor flat main entrance door is 9m. Top most storey height in building is 12m. No riser provided. The flat is accessed via your standard hardwood FD30S self-closing door into a hallway .The hallway has kitchen, sitting room, toilet and various cupboards. An internal stairway within the flat leads to an upper floor containing four bedrooms, bathroom and another sitting room. Is this a Flat or possibly a Maisonette? I am aware of the definitions contained in the Domestic technical handbook but am still stumped.
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You may want to consider the Lacors Guide: https://www.rla.org.uk/docs/LACORSFSguideApril62009.PDF See Page 18 Para - 15.5 Gas or electric meters and/or distribution boards should ideally not be sited in escape routes. However, it should be possible to relax this providing any gas meter is installed in accordance with the gas safety regulations and any electric meter is installed and sited in accordance with current IEE regulations. It is considered best practice to enclose such equipment in fire-resisting construction.
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Hi Tom Thanks for your reply, I have found some useful guidance in BS9999. If any one needs it please look at Annex F (normative) Process plant and outdoor structures on Page 355.
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Had the following query today and wasn't able to assist so here it is: "We have several seals that are worn and need replacing, is it ok for our maintenance department to change these or do we need to get a registered person to do this?" Thank you F
