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Just done an FRA on my first primary school where understandably a lot of the doors didn't have self-closers fitted, presumably to prevent the little ones being knocked over etc. Finger Guards were also in place. But it got me thinking as these doors were opening onto escape routes is there any dispensation given anywhere for such establishments?I have had a quick look at the Government Guidance Doc but can't find any reference.
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Hi with regard to fire doors (on single staircase grade II building), strips and seals have been added but they are not provided with third hinges - my question is can you add the extra hinge without compromising "Historic England" and or local authority requirements? Thank you in advance
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Hi Harry, I've just used the hoover and hair drier on my Ei141 after it was going off at random times. A big web blew out at first and after re fixing it there has been no alarms as yet.....thank you for the advice. ps. I was a few seconds from buying a new alarm ! Cheers , Ian.
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Compliant self-closing devices suitable for the elderly in blocks of flats
Neil Ashdown CertFDI replied to AbiL's topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
Hi AbiL, My advice is to talk to a specialist manufacturer of self-closing devices for advice about the best solution for your circumstances. With regard to fire door leaves manufactured in the 60s / 70s, construction type is likely to be solid timber core but may also include a layer of cement board or plasterboard (or asbestos if older) inside the core of the door leaf. Door cores of that type are likely generally to provide good fire separation qualities but of course the core of the leaf is not the only consideration. Failures of fire doors in terms of fire integrity are usually due to apertures fitted for glass panels, letter-plates etc or due to missing intumescent seals, excessive perimeter gaps or incorrect ironmongery spec/installation. You may wish to consider engaging a 'competent person' to undertake a suitable fire door inspection and report. - Yesterday
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Compliant self-closing devices suitable for the elderly in blocks of flats
Tom Sutton replied to AbiL's topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
If the flats have no fire alarm you could consider cam action doors closer which is extremely efficient, allowing the closer to be set to provide reliable closing power for fire door applications yet still be easy to open. -
Compliant self-closing devices suitable for the elderly in blocks of flats
Safelincs replied to AbiL's topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
Hi Abi, you might want to consider free-swing door closers. These allow fire doors to be opened just like normal doors (no resistance) and will stay open in any position. They will, of course, close should a fire occur. The free-swing door closers are either wired to a fire alarm panel or listen out for the sound of a fire alarm. Harry -
I am involved in over-seeing a number of flat entrance door upgrades in older blocks (1950's-1970's) that have non-compliant (chain closer or self-closing hinges) or no self-closing device. Many of the residents to these blocks are elderly and I am finding that they struggle to open the door with an over-head BS EN 1154 compliant self-closing device. In some cases residents have been completely unable to open their front door even with a cam-assisted closer adjusted to the minimum setting. This is becoming a real problem especially where the drive is to enable people to remain independent in their own homes for longer. Power assisted door openers are obviously a great expense for elderly people. Are there any products/solutions available that I am missing?! Are fire doors constructed of that age even to be trusted as providing 30 minutes? What was the general type of construction of the door leaf in the 60's-70's? I have my opinions on these matters and appropriate management/maintenance but I'm interested in other people's views, particularly those with experience and technical knowledge that I lack! Greatly appreciated. -
AbiL joined the community
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Can anyone please recommend what’s the best fire alarm panel for a hmo in terms of fault finding and reliability.
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You only require to update if there has been a material alteration that has made the means of escape worse.
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Do I need to fit a fire door between garage and utility room?
Tom Sutton replied to a topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
Why? but if you do need an alternative fire escape route, escape through the garage could be acceptable, but the two routes would have to be separated by a minimum 30 mins fire resistance. - Last week
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5 years according to the sole manufacturer http://kerrfire.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/6786-Kerr-Fire-MONNEX-Datasheet.pdf
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As long as it has a simple fastening not requiring a key or code and opens in the direction of escape (ideally) it's not necessarily prohibited. I'd check to see what consent they need to build on a shared courtyard - who owns it, what rights are in leases, etc.
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Building control bodies have a chequered history of relaxing and overlooking things without suitable mitigation - just because they didn't object doesn't mean it's correct. I'd go off the FRA as that would be the most recent look at the building and that assessor would carry the can if wrong not the AI/BCO. Stick to the guidance in your observations - if they choose not to implement them that's on their head not yours.
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There is a few libraries throughout the country that give free access to BSI online, but it must be viewed in the library premises. Most universities give free access to their students and you can take out BSI membership, at a cost, and get standards half price. Other than that it's an expensive game.
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We share a courtyard with a company behind us and they are looking to build a fence to mask our air conditioning units. Our fire escape opens into this courtyard and they want to include a hinged gate to allow us access into the courtyard. My opinion is that this is illegal and that we should have immediate access into this area and not have to open an adjacency gate as a means of escape Am I right ? Ladbros
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Ladbros joined the community
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jason raggett joined the community
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ok thanks
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is there standard covering the shelf life of the MONNEX BCE? thanks
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Tridentfirepl changed their profile photo
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FSI Ltd do a shallow neck collar that is only 25mm deep for this very application.
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You should be trained and competent to undertake fire stopping works. You do not have to be 3rd party accredited. The fire stopping materials manufacturer will have all of the correct installation information if you request it or visit the website. It is not a simple job and there are many different approved details for each application required. Many times when I inspect fire stopping carried out by untrained installers it is non-compliant and has to be rectified.
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It depends a lot in the construction of the ceiling, provision of compartment walls and cavity barrier's. In a roof void cavity barrier's should be installed directly in line with any compartment walls below, but if the ceiling is fire rated the cavity barrier's are not required to be inline with the walls below and are used to reduce the roof space to maximum 20m in length. The issue is that a fire rated ceiling is normally only tested from below for fire resistance and not from above, so a fire in a roof void could compromise the ceiling in less than the required time of fire resistance and if the dividing walls in the roof space do not align with the walls below 2 or more flats may be compromised by the fire. This would render a stay out policy ineffective. I would expect to see solid block or brick compartment walls separating each flat in the roof space fire stopped to the head as per ADB with an intermediate cavity barrier installed if the distance exceeds 20m between both compartment walls.
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Tridentfirepl joined the community
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During a recent compartmentation survey (post refurb) in a hotel I noted that the 'immersion water heater tanks' (approx 150ltr tanks) were located on the escape routes and were not located in thier own compartment. I stated that they were a fire risk and should be enclosed in 30 minutes fire resistance as it is a sleeping accommodation. The appointed fire engineering/building control who drew up the fire strategy claimed they were not a fire hazard and not included in the fire strategy or FRA, despite DCLG guidance for sleeping accommodation stating heating appliances including water heaters should not be located on escape routes. Was I right to flag up the issues? If I had been carrying out an FRA of the building they would have formed part of my assessment. Just wondering what others opinions would have been?
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Morning, hope you can help with a query. A fire risk assessment has highlighted an issue with a teaching lab in our college. The lab accomodates up to 100 students The lab has 2 double exit doors which lead to a lobby area The max travel distance from the lab to the doors leading to the protected stairwell is 35m Area is referred to as normal risk Would you consider the following statement from the FRA to be correct? The main lab on the first floor has the capacity to hold up to 100 occupants. While it has two entrance doors these both lead to the same lobby and therefore cannot be considered alternative exits. Approved Document Part B advises that any room with a capacity of over 60 should have alternative exits. If correct, in order to allow for the occupancy to be more than 60, could we segragate the lobby (with automatic closing double doors highlighted in yellow)? We would also ensure all doors open out. Many thanks Jones
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Do I need to fit a fire door between garage and utility room?
Guest replied to a topic in Fire Doors and Accessories
Hi Tom. I am thinking of having a loft conversion on my bungalow and will need an alternative fire escape route. Would a door into the garage and then out the garage doors be an acceptable means of escape? Thanks Kevin -
Good morning, I am new on here so have been lurking and learning over the last few days, I am a chartered safety consultant just about to start further education on fire and ameliorating the risks etc. I wondered if there was another way of purchasing BS 9999 I realise it is essential but I also note it is £400 + Is there a way of purchasing this as a group or whatever that makes this cheaper in any way. I know there is a handbook but that only seems to be for the 2008 version. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Malcolm
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