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Fire exit with thumb lock

thum lock fire exit locked

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#1 Guest_Sara Bennett_*

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:16 PM

we manage a property which is a multi--tenanted office block, with different escape route for the basement tenant. There are rear of the building fire escape stairs, leading to a door which apparently releases when the fire alarm goes off. The door opens outwards onto the fire escape landing outside, which is not ideal, but worse is that on the inside there is a thumb lock which is kept locked for security purposes. Therefore this escape route is completely useless unless we can find some sort of means by which the people escaping can actually access this door and go down the main staircase and out of the front door, and also to maintain the integrity of security within the building. Our fire alarm maintenance company doesn't seem to know what to do, but this must be a pretty common problem, and wonder if you could advise? Any external door release would obviously compromise security.

#2 Tom Sutton

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:04 PM

Sorry Sara I cannot visualise the situation can you re-phase the question or can anybody help who is less thick than me.

All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution. It is near impossible to give a definitive answer without a physical survey and remember the final decision is the Responsible Person after all it is the RP who will face the judge from the dock it things go pear shaped.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland has differing legislation.

 

I would appreciate feedback to know if my contributions are useful.


#3 Tom Sutton

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 02:14 PM

Sara my understanding is you have a staircase at the rear of the building leading from the basement to, I assume the ground floor which opens onto a platform in the open air. From this platform another door opens into the main staircase which then leads to the front door.

1. When you get on the platform why can’t you disperse to the assemble point?
2. If you cannot disperse then how would an intruder get on the platform?
3. The door which apparently releases when the fire alarm goes off, is most probably fitted with mag-lock, why can’t the door into the main staircase be fitted as well.

Check out http://www.firesafe....nd-fire-safety/ it may be worth a read.

All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution. It is near impossible to give a definitive answer without a physical survey and remember the final decision is the Responsible Person after all it is the RP who will face the judge from the dock it things go pear shaped.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland has differing legislation.

 

I would appreciate feedback to know if my contributions are useful.


#4 Fast Key Services Ltd

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:44 AM

Is it not a viable option to have a fire release bar on the door? or can this not be done. Also what is the issue with intruders, if the door is thumb release from the inside how can it be accessed from the outside?
Replacement Keys and Locks for Office Furniture.

#5 Guest_TiaR_*

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

I live in a converted victorian terrace house that contains 3 separate flats with a common hall and front door. I was wondering if you could advise on whether this communal front door was permitted to have a chubb lock in terms of fire safety if this is the only means of escape? The lock is old and incredibly difficult to unlock and it concerns me that if there was an emergency and i wanted to evacuate the building quickly i would be stuck inside. I would like to ask my freeholder to change the lock to one that can be opened without a key from the inside. Please could you let me know if there is any legal obligation for him to do this.
Tia


#6 Tom Sutton

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 09:30 AM

Ideally, final exit doors from all premises should be fitted with locks/catches which are openable by the occupiers from the inside without the use of a removable key. This should always be the case in HMOs, including shared houses. Where security locks are fitted they should be of the type with a suitable internal thumb-turn to facilitate this. There is also a requirement for them to be maintained so both items have to be addressed.

Whether or not this is the situation will have to be decided between you and your freeholder. The fire service enforce the fire safety order so they have the last say.

All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution. It is near impossible to give a definitive answer without a physical survey and remember the final decision is the Responsible Person after all it is the RP who will face the judge from the dock it things go pear shaped.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland has differing legislation.

 

I would appreciate feedback to know if my contributions are useful.


#7 Guest_MikeSla_*

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 11:31 PM

This questions affects the means of escape for three flats [occupancy total 8] above a separate beauty and nail salon.
Wooden staircase leading to Exit door at street level with DEAD LOCK that is kept locked but each of the three flats has key to the Yale type lock.
Should the only Fire escape door have a dead-lock capable of being locked with a key? Or should this be a latch only?

 

Thanks

Mike



#8 Tom Sutton

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Posted 06 December 2013 - 02:10 AM

All doors on escape routes should be quick and easy to open without the need for a key. In most situations this is the case; for instance, you simply operate the door handle of the door leading from an office and pass through. In the case of a hotel, while a key is required to access a bedroom, it is only necessary to operate the door handle to get out. However, the final exit door of a building frequently presents problems because this type of door requires a higher degree of security while still having to be to be opened easily from within.

 

Checkout http://www.firesafe....nd-fire-safety/


All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution. It is near impossible to give a definitive answer without a physical survey and remember the final decision is the Responsible Person after all it is the RP who will face the judge from the dock it things go pear shaped.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland has differing legislation.

 

I would appreciate feedback to know if my contributions are useful.


#9 Guest_Caroline_*

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 10:19 AM

Hi there I am wondering do you know the year that thumb turns on doors& windows had to be used by law & fire regulations please I have looked and cannot find this information out for myself ,thanks for your help
Regards Caroline



#10 Tom Sutton

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 11:00 PM

Thumb turns on doors and windows have never been required by law or fire regulations. There are only two emergency exit fasteners recommended by British Standard BS EN 179:2008 which are lever handle or push pad. Because the fire safety order is all about risk assessment the RP (Responsible Person) can fit other types of fasteners if it is considered to be safe and are suitable risk assessed.

 

The main consideration is as stated in BS EN 179

 

4.1.2 Release function

 

An emergency exit device shall be designed to release a door at all times from the inside in less than 1 s, by one single hand operation only, not requiring the use of a key or other similar object. It shall be designed to release the door without any delay from the time the operating element is operated to the released position of the mechanism.

 

The operation of the operating element shall enable immediate exit from the inside at all times regardless of any auxiliary locking and/or unlocking means being incorporated, such as a deadbolt or outside access device. Compliance shall be verified by visual inspection, functional tests and/or measurements.

 

This would also apply to emergency escape windows.


All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution. It is near impossible to give a definitive answer without a physical survey and remember the final decision is the Responsible Person after all it is the RP who will face the judge from the dock it things go pear shaped.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland has differing legislation.

 

I would appreciate feedback to know if my contributions are useful.


#11 Guest_davidYa_*

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:49 PM

Just a normal internal door leading from say a shop floor to the back of house area – like a stock room. So there will be a proper fire exit door in the back of house area that leads out of the building. This will have a push bar on it.

 

My query is the fire door on the fire router from the shop floor to the back area. I want to install a handle and latch onto that door. I don’t know if the law allows it or not?

 

Many Thanks,

David



#12 Safelincs

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:54 PM

Hi David

You need a latch that can be opened in a single movement (not handle and know, for example). If this exit is aimed primarily at your staff and this is a small store, you can use emergency pads.

 

Harry



#13 Tom Sutton

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Posted 06 May 2015 - 06:06 PM

As Harry has said a latch that can be opened easily in a single movement like a lever handle not a knob but if the numbers using the door is high then you should consider panic type devices.

 

However you can use a dead lock providing you open the lock at start of business. The key should then be removed and hung on a keyboard in a prominent place as a reminder that the door has been opened. At the close of business the locks can be locked until you open for business next time.


All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution. It is near impossible to give a definitive answer without a physical survey and remember the final decision is the Responsible Person after all it is the RP who will face the judge from the dock it things go pear shaped.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland has differing legislation.

 

I would appreciate feedback to know if my contributions are useful.


#14 Guest_DavidY_*

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 03:36 PM

Hello Harry,

I am confused. I don’t want to do a handle and a knob. I want to put a normal handle and latch on a door to keep it closed, but the door is on a fire root.

 

Is this okay to install on an internal door that is on a fire route (which I guess will be for staff and customers)?

 

Many Thanks,

David



#15 Tom Sutton

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Posted 08 May 2015 - 07:21 PM

David 

 

Put a normal handle and latch on a door to keep it closed providing the door can be opened easily in a single movement using a lever handle, not a knob but if the numbers using the door is high then you should consider panic type devices.

 

Sorry to stick my nose in Harry.  :wacko: 


All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution. It is near impossible to give a definitive answer without a physical survey and remember the final decision is the Responsible Person after all it is the RP who will face the judge from the dock it things go pear shaped.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland has differing legislation.

 

I would appreciate feedback to know if my contributions are useful.


#16 Guest_TonyEdw_*

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Posted 20 May 2015 - 04:25 PM

Mortice Locks and latches

Can I install into a fire check door a latch separately to the lock operated by a key.
Location kitchen door into garage

Thanks



#17 Tom Sutton

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 08:18 AM

Domestic property is not subject to The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 so it is up to you what you do but you must consider your means of escape plan for your home, or is this to do with the building Regulations approval?

 

Check out Approved Document Part B Fire Safety.


All my responses only apply to England and Wales and they are an overview of the subject, hopefully it will point you in the right direction and always treat with caution. It is near impossible to give a definitive answer without a physical survey and remember the final decision is the Responsible Person after all it is the RP who will face the judge from the dock it things go pear shaped.

 

Scotland and Northern Ireland has differing legislation.

 

I would appreciate feedback to know if my contributions are useful.




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